Well at any rate I'll give a go at it later. I got asked what forumla I am using to determine weapon damage and energy usage, so I thought I would post them here.

Lets use the liberty dreadnaught and RH cruiser for example. Always use the one with the most guns in the section to figure out the rest for that section

Key ships - Sabre, Drone, NO GB, RH CR, LB DN

LIB DN = 15 BS turrets ----- Power rank = 7 for battleships
RH CR = 10 CR turrets ----- Power rank = 7 for cruisers

Damage:

BS Turret = 5000 @ 3 /s
((5,000 * 3 = 15,000) * 15) = 225000 / s

Station = 3,000,000 hp - (3,000,000 / 225000 = 13.33333 seconds)
BUT BS can only substain that fire for 10 seconds, so add an additional 3 seconds to recharge and now it takes 16.3333 seconds to destroy a station.

CR Turret = 3750 @ 3 /s
((3,750 * 3 = 11250) * 10) =112,500 / s

Station = 3,000,000 hp - (3,000,000 / 112,500 = 26.66666 seconds)
BUT CR can only substain that fire for 10 seconds, so add an additional 20 seconds to recharge and now it taks 46.66666 seconds to destroy a station.

Energy Use:

BS Power = 500,000 w/ 25,000 regen
CR Power = 375,000 w/ 20,000 regen

Now we want to fire consistently for 10 seconds so we figure like this

BS power w/ 10 sec regen = 750,000
CR power w/ 10 sec regen = 575,000

Now here is we do the math on the weapons

15 BS turrets = Firing consistently for 10 seconds

750,000 / 10 = 75,000 - amount we can drain per second
75,000 / 15 = 5,000 - amount per gun per second
5,000 / 3 = 1666.666 - amount per shot

Now we do the cruiser weapons

10 CR turrets = Firing consistently for 10 seconds

575,000 / 10 = 57,500 - amount we can drain per second
57,500 / 10 = 5,750 - amount per gun per second
5,750 / 3 = 1916.666 - amount per shot

Hopefully that will give you guys an idea why it takes me so long to balance stuff out. I have sheets filled out with math that I do on all the weapons before I even modify them and then it takes time to input all of them.

When I wasn't moving the server I spent most of the time pouring over the fomulas for each of the modified ships. Since they will have alot less weapons I need to figure out the values for each one.

Part of the Freelancer SDK Team
http://www.homebs.com/flsdk/
Tutorials, Utilties, Mods, and much more.

Edited by - Reynen on 21-04-2003 08:20:23

I got a bug report for beta 2.3 in SP: -
1) The Lane Hacker base in Magellan system, Mactan base is not selling anything.
2) I don't know if you are aware of this or it was just an accident but you can't fire two cannonball missiles at the same time. As in having two missile launchers. What happens is the first missile hits the target and the resulting explosion will cancel the second missile. So in the end its like you fired only 1 missile. If that is the case then there is no reason to have a second cannonball missile launcher. And if this is correct (further testing by other people is needed to confirm this), it would hold true to the other missiles launchers too. And it also means that even if you have 2 or more sunslayer launchers, you have to shoot them one by one ... you can't fire 2 or more simultanously(sp?) because the resulting explosion of the first one will cancel the second one.

Regarding the cannonball, I noticed it when I fired two at the same time at a target, the damage dealt was almost the same as if I fired only one of them. Further testing seems to confirm this. The target was a Rheinland heavy fighter. Anyone could confirm this, or is it just me?

===========================
"To knowthe light, you must see the dark."

ok, first i want to say that i love reynens mod. with every update the game gets more and more like its supposed to be (and like we all wanted it to be).

you are really doing an awesome job here! keep up the good work.

yesterday i downloaded the latest version of your mod and tried the battleships. it feels really cool to be the biggest ship around.

i went to one of the unknown systems with it although it was really a pain, going through the asteroid sectors with this big ship, being constantly attacked (yeah, larger groups of enemys are almost impossible, especially when you cant fly straight). after making it to the nomad system it became quite easy. those groups of nomad fighters attacking are no longer a threat. they have barely time to appear, before my battleship blasted them out of the sky. (revenge is great )

however, there are a few things that dont quite fit:
1. the new docking rings: some worlds are now quite crowded, especially when you have a planet and 2 stations close together. sometimes when you leave a port, you crash right into the docking ring of another (especially with large ships). maybe it would be better to place the docking rings above or below the stations so they dont get in your way.

2. the performance drop through beam weapons: it has been mentioned before. when you equip your fighter with beam weapons only and fire them all, the game slows down somewhat. maybe the beam size could be reduced further (or they should fade away much faster, i dont know if its possible)

3. battleships and asteroid fields: yea, its almost impossible to get through, but maybe thats the point. a ship that size has no business to fly through an asteroid field. that way, the border world could really be a safe haven for criminals, because the huge ships cant follow them there (also you would not have to add docking rings, saving you quite a lot of work )

4. turret view: the camera moves too sluggish to aim correctly (faster and more precise movement would be nice) also, sometimes its impossible to hit an enemy, even when you have the crosshair centered perfectly. i havent found out when this occurs. i used beam weapons as well as ordinary ones (one at a time of course).

also i have encountered several sound bugs. maybe i just screwed up my game, but i hardly receive any radio messages anymore. sometimes they start to speak but break up in mid-sentence. also docking requests break up. same with cargo scan requests.

so, enough for now. great work again, reynen. without your mod i would have quit freelancer weeks ago. (i am shure a lot of us feel that way, but it has to be said from time to time)

*edit* signature

*edit 2*
it would also be more realistic if the bships didnt get knocked around so much. this would also help while trying to maneuver through debris fields.
also just because i got hit by some puny fighter it shouldnt alter the course of such a large ship.

*edit3*
it is also possible to dock with any station without the docking ring (with a bs, that is). you only have to skip the movie sequence as soon as it begins.


==============================
I can see a perfect world where nobody fights and there is complete peace. I also see us attacking it
because nobody will expect it

Edited by - Schokomilch on 21-04-2003 11:38:19

Edited by - Schokomilch on 21-04-2003 12:09:49

Edited by - Schokomilch on 21-04-2003 13:39:10

Radiation, after I read that I went back to my saves and installed missiles and 2 more torpedo launchers. I think youre right about the torps cancelling each other out but I don't see any way around that. However about the missiles well its not just the fact that they blow up and cancel each other out I'm not getting any damage on my targets at all. I don't know, either its because the AI can shoot backwards and destroys them before they hit or if certain areas of the fighter can take damage and others are invulnerable. I say that because I can't do anything to their rear but if I hit them with missiles broadside or head on I get a better chance of doing damage, anyways I noticed I was wasting money firing missiles that don't do damage. I don't know many people online that use missiles other than cruise disruptors, of course after this mod spreads around more people will. I just see this as being a bug report or complaint in the future (man I am babbling, its just one minute to my next class), but if I am correct in that it is the reverse firing guns that shoot down the missiles and this is either AI intuition or happen stance the reduction in the number of guns will rectify this so I'll keep quiet now and wait for the next release.

Keirok: Ah I know what you mean about sometimes your missiles don't do any damage. Of course right now I am assuming that you are firing two of them at the same time right?
Firstly, it depends on the missile. If you fire a cannonball missile while the enemy have shields it won't do any damage at all since it only damages the hull. Vice versa with the paralyzer missiles.
Secondly, and also which is unavoidable is that sometimes when you fire two missiles at once, when the target moves, the missiles have to turn to compensate and when it does that it might collide with each other. Creating an explosion which will make us think that it impacted on the enemy but in fact it just impacted on each other.
Thirdly, it could be that the enemy shot it. Or you accidentally shot it. I know because I use eliminators which has a refire rate of 10. So sometimes I do accidentally shoot my own missiles. *shrugs*. So now whenever I shoot missiles I stop shooting my guns altogether. Thats why now I can see what really happens to the missiles.

So, the moral of the story is: its better to fire one missile at a time rather than 2 or more at the same time.


"To knowthe light, you must see the dark."

Edited by - RaDiAtIoN on 21-04-2003 15:40:18

I was using all three missile types. The Firestalkers are the ones that we need to pay attention to they do both shield and hull damage and I wasn't shooting my own missiles down, they just weren't doing any damage I fire them singly or in pairs with the same effect. Sometimes I get damage somtimes I don't I get good hits more often in the targets foreward and side quarters than at any other angle. I still assume that the target ship is shooting the missiles down at the last second but if this is the case and we are still assuming that the blast radius from a single missile is large enough to cancel the effect of a second missile then why no damage at all or atleast none that can be seen? I guess what I am trying to say is that a missile and maybe even a torpedo that are shot down may have a blast radius that can destroy surrounding missiles/torps but do no damage to surrounding ships. Also in wingmounted positions the missiles are less prone to colliding but then I never had that problem before. I think the cannonball and paralyzer should do "some" damage other than what they do normally because if I shoot at a target get its shield down and start hitting hull and then fire a missile, the time it takes for the missile to reach its target is just enough time for the shield to return, thus no damage. Oh and the firestalker needs some sort of advantage over the other two missile types, of course their could be an advantage already(other than doing hull and shield damage) and I missed it.

Edited by - Keirok on 21-04-2003 18:30:37

Edited by - Keirok on 21-04-2003 18:40:48

Edited by - Keirok on 21-04-2003 18:53:00

Edited by - Keirok on 21-04-2003 18:55:03

Edited by - Keirok on 21-04-2003 18:57:13

Ya, I noticed sometimes I did lots of damage with cannonballs, and sometimes not.

ALSO:

On the TIE ships, they can use both guns and turrets on each hardpoint. not at the same time, but both can use the same hardpoint. thought this wasn't possible...

Ya might want to make the collision damage something like 15-25... I liked having to be careful in asteroid fields, but it WAS kinda high back a few versions.

Glad ta hear ya are gonna re-vamp the weapons. I 0wn with my TIE defender with Death's Hand turrets and Cannonball missiles, so I thought there should be more to it.

I still need help with adding bases to places. Any heps would be appreciated.

Edited by - BobTheDog on 21-04-2003 20:03:36

Edited by - BobTheDog on 21-04-2003 22:26:43

Another bug i noticed was that on the 3rd Gun/missle hardpoint on the valkyrie bomber, the weapon is crooked and will only fire when you aim to the very right of the screen.

Hmmm ok to address some of these concerns.

Radiation:

I am currently aware of the empty bases I am working to populate them all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Radiation, Keirok, BobTheDog

I have confirmed that when you fire 2 missiles or more only 1 takes effect USUALLY.

I have corrected this in BETA 4 by increasing the missile HP to rougly 500K. That ensures that ALL missiles hit their targets.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schokomilch:

1: Sorry about that, but no choice. If I don't use docking rings then you can't dock with battleships. Also you can't "crash" into a docking ring. I removed the .sur file so you see the thing but it is rather ethereal.

2: Again I am aware of this issue. Please see my previous post about the problem with beam weapons. I'll reiterate the basics.

From a BS point of view fighters are dime size. The END of the beam is roughly the size of a pen point in contrast.

So now you are trying to hit something the size of a dime with something the size of a pen point. Now do you understand why your beams aren't hitting? Now increase the beam to the size of a quater. You will be able to hit the dime MUCH better.

I am reducing the number of weapons, which will lessen lag, increase the beam size, which will make it easier to hit the target.

3: The only way a BS can fly through an astroid field is through SLOW impulse otherwise they bounce around like a pinball. I can't change this, but your right, it does make sense. BS should not be able to navigate an astroid field.

4: I will increase the speed of the turret view.

5: To address your other concerns, BS collission problems have been fixed in BETA 4. You can only dock with regular stations in SP only. If you try and dock in MP the thing does the cutscene then just freezes there. You can't esc out of cutscenes in MP.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob:

The TIE fighters where meant to use both. Since they have such few weapons slots they need equivalanet firepower. Equipping 6 turrets would be equiv to equiping 12 guns of the same kind. See why I enabled both.

EX:

Anubis has 13 guns, 4 torpedos. TIE Defender has 7 guns OR turrets, 2 torps.

Now lets equip each with 1 missile.

Anibus has 12 guns, 1 missile, 4 torp. TIE has the Equivalent of 12 guns (6 turrets), 1 miss, and 2 torps.

Hope that explains things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imax:

I am working on redoing the Valk's HP's. These will be corrected in the next version.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a rough list for BETA 4.

0 = NOT finished ---- .5 = halfway ---- 1 = finished

.5 - Added Cruisers
.5 - Added Gunboats
1 - Decreased NPC damage
0 - Increased turret view speed
0 - All weapons have been changed
0 - Valkery has had it's hardpoints fixed
1 - Speed has been fixed on all the missiles
1 - Fixed Battleship cargo & collision problem
1 - Increased target bases HP for random missions
.5 - Sounds has been fixed for many of the larger ships
0 - Update all the inforcards with the new information
1 - Thrusters now give roughly double your impulse speed
1 - Increased nomad ship's firepower to make them harder
1 - Cruisers and battleships have their own unique weapons
1 - Increased effects on battleship deaths, nice explosions now
0 - The empty bases in various sectors now have equipment in them
1 - Streamlined power regen for freighters, gunboats, and cruisers
0 - Ships speeds are now 200, 175, 150, 125, & 100 (FT, FR, GB, CR, BS)
1 - Increased weapons damage for stations, they will not be so easy to destroy
1 - Freighers, Gunboats, Cruisers, and Battleships each have thier own shield and thrusters
1 - Weapons have had their hp raised so you do not lose them all at the first hit to the hull
1 - Missile's have had thier HP raised so that they are not destroyed by another missiles blast
1 - The number of weapons on the larger ships has been reduced to lessen lag from beam weapons
1 - With regard to beam weapons, the "size" of the beam has been increased so that you can hit your target

If you see any more let me know and I will update this TO-DO list

Part of the Freelancer SDK Team
http://www.homebs.com/flsdk/
Tutorials, Utilties, Mods, and much more.

Edited by - Reynen on 22-04-2003 03:48:04

what of the torpedo Health Points? I don't mind having to shoot them in singles I am just curious as you didn't mention them in your post unless when u say missiles you mean torps as well. In that case I hope that somehow they can still be shot down by Capital ships.

Keirok:

Yes torps are included as well. I increased all the missiles HP to 500,000. That will guanratee even all 6 torps survive long enough to deliver their payload. Now before you yell that is to much please remeber the BS does about 200K + dmg a second.

I am working on creating an AMS for the bigger ships, but it is taking a bit of work on the AI part. Once I get it worked out for the caps I can apply it to the rest of the ships.

Part of the Freelancer SDK Team
http://www.homebs.com/flsdk/
Tutorials, Utilties, Mods, and much more.

Edited by - Reynen on 22-04-2003 03:45:37

I wasn't going to yell honest and it sounds really good to have the AI keeping up with the rest of the mod. hmmm I think we can start calling this a Total Conversion what the rest of you guys think has it altered enough stuff yet?

Edited by - Keirok on 22-04-2003 03:35:29

All it needs is Trogdor the Burninator then it is complete

TROGDOR! Burininating the countryside! Burninating the peasants! Burininating the all the peoples! And he shamsh through cottages! Smash through cottages!
...
AND THE DRAGON COMES IN THE NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTTT!!!!!!!!
...
...
Oh... sorry, got caught up in the moment

I can't wait for gunships. hehehe...

ALSO:
The thing where the enemies drop Drails and CM droppers and Javelins and stuff can be fixed in rmlootinfo.ini in the random missions folder. It lists all the stuff that enemies can drop, and the percentages thereof. Heh, be cool to add Trogdor to one of the Easter Egg systems... lol...

Edited by - BobTheDog on 22-04-2003 04:05:54

Edited by - BobTheDog on 22-04-2003 04:11:06