If your using the Mod required on a server then your within the rules for that server. But once you use a mod not required, you guessed it your cheating.

Erm - i would have thought that this would have been better posted in the very thread you mentioned - which after all is made for this precise discussion. However - just a quickie (not that kind *sigh*)

Is it fair to agree to server rules by logging on, only to then use external methods to increase wealth, firepower, ships power, or ANY other type of thing over the other players because you wish too? Hell no. Just like if someone invites you into their home you don't do what the hell you like - like kick down doors to make walking round easier, just because you want too.......
So - from their - i think its pretty obvious that you stick to their rules, or get out.
For modded servers, or those that don't mind - then off you go and mod away. If they have a mod running like TNG - they might ask you not too mod externally as in the above arguement. At that point - refer to what i said above - it still applies.

Between SP and MP though. SP is your game - is it cheating? Well - you are only cheating erm - yourself really.
In MP it IS cheating as you are gaining that unfair advantage above everyone else in the same game. Especially when you use that unfair advantage against them directly (ie shoot with uber weapons).

If you log onto a server with SOME external cheats then you will crash it unless the server is likewise modded. Not all mods crash servers - bringing in external NON game things willthoguh - ie ships. However - if the server is patched and you try this, the server will only boot you off it (disconnect you).

That is all i have to say on this matter. For me it aint a discussion. You play MP - then you are a GUEST on a server whilst playing there. It is SOMEONE ELSES place where they ALLOW you to play. IF you choose to abuse it, then they kick you out. All they ask in return for letting you play there is that you obey some minor rules that after all are ONLY their to keep the game fun for all, and on a level playing field. Personally - i don't see the discussion. Admin don't make rules for discussion - they make them for abidement.If you can't do that - then you aint welcome. Simple.

To me it's a matter of honor. I don't use mods of any kind. I play the game as it was released. These guys who use speed mods do so cuz they can't win a fair fight. Its amusing to listen to them talk trash when they beat you using a mod. At some point, I take much pleasure in spreading their remains about the quadrant I kill them in.



There is no honor in killing the weak-Klingon Proverb

All I can say is that Chips has hit the nail on the head. As a guest on a server, you play by its rules or don’t play at all.

As for cheating in SP, I think it actually encourages MP cheating, as the player will lose the ability to play the un-modded game through constant use of uber weapons or cash generation.

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If there is anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot immediately ~ (Zaphod Beeblebrox - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

Very fair points raised indeed.

Chips, I would have raised this in the original thread, only it was closed for reasons known to someone else.

If I join someone elses server, I don't use mods, end of story. I host my own server from time to time, and I use Speed 3000 on it (which, for those who don't know, puts your cruise speed up to 3000 instead of 300). I always state in the description of the server when the mod is in use. The main reason I use this mod is because I love to explore systems, finding wreckages and hidden bases (usually hostile ones trying to make ME a wreckage) but I hate how long it takes to get from one side of a system to the other. Disadvantage of speed 3000 is that you tend to bounce around alot in astoroid fields.

I assume this isn't the type of mod Beowolf meant by "using speed cheats to win fights" as you can't really fight someone travelling at 3000km/s.

Before I start, my definition of cheat - modding/hacking on a server that doesn't allow them (I can't say "..on an un-modded server" because my server now has server side mods but no client side mods are allowed).

All these are valid points by Pinger, Chips especially, Beowulf and LV38_Eagle. Of course I agree with them because I play both sides of the fence - I'm a sysadmin and I play on other people's servers. King-Kodiak, using the speed hack for cruise though IS a cheat. While it is not too relavent in consenting, fight-to-the-death PvP, it is a cheat nonetheless. What if you want to run away? Not much of a challenge since you can outcruise someone by 2700! Or vica versa, someone wants to run away from you and you get ahead of him with ease to attack again. I think Beowulf said it best, obviously those that cheat are those that can't fight or play fair.

There is one more point I would like to make and it hasn't been touched on. Basically a mod on the client side, that is different from the server side and especially different from another client, creates extra network traffic to compensate the clients so they see what everyone else sees. With many servers running at bandwidth limits when full (like mine), any modding (as defined in the previous sentence) sends the bandwidth requirement through the roof and server load lags horribly trying to keep up with the increased traffic. Even if you get a fat internet pipe, say a dedicated T1 or even T3, in this rarified air you start to pay for the amount of bandwidth (not a flat monthly fee like with cable or ADSL) and modding adds to this headache. If this type of modding didn't affect anyone then there would only be what the sysadmins determine. But it has far reaching effects on servers already near or at limits and that is not fair to everyone else, players and the sysadmin who is trying to provide for those players.

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Earendil
SysAdmin of Boston Freelancer server

This is very contraversial for me. Just say my name and most admins who've been here for awhile will be like "coughcoughbannedasapcoughcough"


Anyway, here's what i think cheating it.



Depriving yourself and others of fun by using unfair mods against other players. Such instances would be like using the Uber-hull and cloak gun mod for pking people. I do admit to cloaking and pking everyone on AC2. (Was quite funny) But when people use speed mod, or mining mod, or ship mod or w/e and its not to kill others. It's not cheating really. Nothings wrong with using the mod unless your using it for "undesireable purposes". So yeah it lags the server a bit. But never much usually.


Yes i've used and not used mod. I've pked and not pked. I've policed and terrorized. I've done it all really...(except use uber-hull)....But i'm going to stop typing here. I don't feel like having a flame war with idiots who have no comprehention with anythnig now.

Heretic

I can't believe that this discussion is happening to be honest, cheating by the very meaning of the word is to ignore rules for your own benefit.

If a server says no mods, it means NO MODS! If you don't like it, tough ****, play elsewhere or start your own server.

And by the way 666 you didn't pk everyone AC2, you missed me.

Gromit - 1. If you can't learn to speak maturely and use adjectives then there is no place for you in the post.

2. I'm talking about the OLD AC2.

Heretic

It's so pathetic to get so worked up over some insignificant cheating bug. Kinda brings you down to the level that he is. Which is lower than a snake's balls.

kthx.....bai TLR

dont bother banning me cause i wont be back anyway....muwhahahaha

Edited by - Kuruption on 28-10-2003 23:01:29

Edited by - Fear Factor on 28-10-2003 23:07:10

Tsk Tsk. Calm down, there are younger audience here. Heretic is as usual full of bull****, but can't let you talk like that here.

Edited by - Fear Factor on 28-10-2003 23:05:28

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Gromit - 1. If you can't learn to speak maturely and use adjectives then there is no place for you in the post.

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Ha! look who's talking.

Great job hijacking a thread Heretic.