My two cents...

CapShips were woefully easy to beat. That only made the game too easy, and I would have enjoyed just a little more realism when it comes to a fighter vs a fully decked out Rheinland Battleship. What's the friggin point of battleships if they can't even handle one or two torpedoes? To make it more realistic...the turrets on the battleships should be destructable, so a fighter could take out the battleship's primary/secondary guns. A torpedo should punch a sizable hole in a ship that size, but not completely destroy it. Disable it, but not destroy it. A handful of fighters should NOT be able to wipe out a Battleship in one missle salvo...(see Donau incident). The game could use just a little more realism...

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First, when the heck would the Alliance have had the time to raise a generation specifically to send off to Sirius? That just seems dumb - if they raised a generation, it seems they would have been put to better use beating off the Coalition dudes.

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You raise them on the way there. Think Attack of the Clones. If the embryos were fertilized before launch, frozen, then thawed and raised with 20 or so years before planetfall, Huge Sleeper ships wouldn't be needed. I was just using that as an example of why sleeper ships wouldn't have been that feasable for a 50-70 year trip. When I think "Sleeper Ship", I think 150-200 years because the trip is longer than a lifetime, hence the need for cryostasis.

"If there are other intelligent beings in the Universe, why aren't they here?". - Enrico Fermi

(Also known as the Fermi Paradox ...)

Even if it was for 50 years, you'd still need a cryoship. Put a person into cryo, and you only need a small space for him and the cryo-pod (assuming they were made small). Have him up and about, and you need quarters, recreational facilities, stores of food, water......basically, the ship would be too big.

Maybe they should have some sort of flak like in Freespace 2.
For those of you who never played this great game , anything above a light cruiser (the weakest class of combat capship) was equipped with one or more fast-firing turrets using the explosive projectiles that could quickly take out multiple fighters at close range.

Thus, the only effective ways of taking out such ships were bringing in an even bigger ship using heavy beam cannons capable of quickly cutting through the armored hull, or using bombers , which would often be equipped with special EM pulse cannons to take out the ship's turrets. Often, both of these were combined, i.e. bombers were used to take out an enemy destroyer's (pretty much the heaviest ships in FS) beam cannons , after which corvettes could easily finish the job with their beam cannons.

One person, I think working on the Detroit base, or that top-secret base which develops jump gates and trade lanes (forget the name), says that they were developing a form of hull plating which would allow ships to traverse interstellar distances, as fast as the jump gates, only without the need for Jump gates. This, according to him, would be ready in the next 10 years. The Coalition, therefore, might not need Sleeper Ships if they've had 200 years or more to work on the technology. And, we'll remember from Stalin Russia, a hostile dictatorship can motivate its workers very well. As in, do it or die.

Lets not forget, its not just the 200 years travel time, they also must have spent a long time building the colonies up to a position where they could actually do any research. They didn't just land on an industrialised planet. The Coalition had all the ship facilities, research facilities and resource based avaliable to them from the start.

Also, I doubt that the Coalition remained in the Sol system long. From the Starlancer info I gained, I remember that before the war we played, both factions were preparing to travel to new systems. The Coalition could have met alien species as well, possibly even more advanced.

And yeah, the capital ships were far too easy to beat. Whatever happened to the adrenaline-pumping 'defend the Torp bombers or the Alliance may be lost' missions? If I remember, the carriers all had shields, and those shields were immensely powerful - you had to bring them down before the Torps had any effect. And even with shields down, figher-weapons had no effect on them whatsoever, except on the external components. You certainly couldn't take out a carrier single-handedly. And the capital ships in Freelancer aren't carriers, they're battleships - they should be able to take an even heavier beating.

I know that in the interests of playability and learning curves this had to happen, but its still un-nerving. The fighters of all the Houses are slighly more powerful depending on the order you met them. Liberty fighters are exceptionally weak, Bretonia weapons slightly more powerful, Kusari ships can take an even bigger pounding, and Rheinland ships can wipe the floor with all of them. Surely that would mean that in a war, the results would be obvious? Rheinland would be the victors. And after meeting the Corsair Crusaders in the Omega 17 (?) system, I'm wondering why the Corsairs aren't the dominant power in Syria.
At least in Starlancer, you could see the pattern. Both sides had equally weak fighters and capital ships, both had equally powerful fighters and ships (well, at least they seemed to be, Coalition ships were actually pretty terrible). Freelancer puts one house at a significant disadvantage to another, and vice versa. If the Queen of Bretonia decided she wanted Liberty, her army would have little trouble taking it. Again, the Kusari could just as easily trample the Bretonian forces. I think that instead of making the ships drastically more powerful the futher you went on, they should start you off in and against light fighters of equal abilities and work up from there.

In terms of technologies, I can't actually see much difference between Starlancer and Freelancer, apart from speed. Even speed is cutting it close. The warp gates of Starlancer allowed you to travel the whole solar system much faster than trade lanes, and even fighters could be equiped with them. Imagine how far they could have come in 800 years... The same with the cloak. They already had a 'camaflage' on fighters. They've had 800 years to perfect it - it may even be more advanced than the Nomad cloak. War is generally a very good motivator for technological advancement.

To be honest, I don't think the Nomad weapons and equipment would make much difference to the chances of the Colonies - if the Coalition found the last remnants of their old enemy, I think they could quite easily take them down. It wouldn't surprise me if they had interstellar engines of some sort - they had warp gate technology integrated on fighters 800 years previous. Even if they had to come on sleeper ships, unlikely though it is, they could quite easily trample the Syrians. Hell, I reckon the Coalition from 800 years ago (or 100-200 years in the future) could have a good shot. I think we should cut down the time the Syrians have had to research their technology to about 500 years. 200 travel time, and a further 100 to allow for significant industry to begin research. That puts them far behind, and the Coalition has the advantage of being an agressive, expansionist military power constantly trying to make themselves more powerful.

Thats my two credits, anyway. Sounds fairly logical to me, but then logic distorts between people. Perhaps if I had my old member ranking back people would take me more seriously . I lost my profile when I stopped playing Starlancer 2 years on from its release. Some may remember me as Matt_el_g or something, but I doubt it. Anyway, enough rambling.
Coalition + Syrians = new Coalition colony, in my view.

If we look at the astronomy charts, Sirius (Alpha Canis Majoris) isn't all that far from Sol. Just 8 light years away.

That's only 2x as far as Sol's closest stellar neighbor, Proxima Centauri (which is 4.3 light years away).

With jump gate technology that allows Siriusites (sounds more appropriate than "syrians" methinks heh heh) to roam around the star systems surrounding Sirius (the fictitious systems like New York, New London, New Berlin, New Tokyo, etc.) which are probably also light years apart, one would figure that Sol would be within VERY easy reach.

There's a double-edged sword... On one hand Siriusites can keep a close eye on what's going on back in Sol, on the other hand if the Coalition develops jumpgate technology (or even learn how to use jumpholes) Sirius would be under immediate threat of invasion. Maybe the Coalition and the remnants of the Alliance back in the Sol system had blown themselves back to the Stone Age, if the threat never materialized even after 800 years.

Personally I think this little inconsistency might have been eliminated had the storyline been just a little different-- Such as the Alliance developing some sort of hyperdrive in complete secret that allowed their sleeper ships to travel MUCH FURTHER away than just 8 light years, say 7000 light years from Earth, to the region around the Eagle Nebula in the constellation Serpens, i.e. those "Pillars of Creation" made famous by the Hubble Space Telescope. That way, they would be truly out of reach of the Coalition. Hell, I think the Eagle Nebula would have made a fantastic background graphicswise for the game..

Obligatory corny humor tag:

"Surely you are not sirius!"

"I am sirius, and don't call me Shirley."




Edited by - Chandrasekhar Limit on 15-04-2003 23:13:10

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Coalition + Syrians = new Coalition colony, in my view.

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I agree with that sentiment for one reason: How the hell would the 4 houses, which have been bickering and fighting with each other for several centuries (80 Years War comes to mind), have a snowball's chance against a highly organized Coalition Invasion? For that matter, what about the Corsairs and the Outcasts and all those destabilizing crime factors in the Sirius sector? Liberty, Rheinland, Bretonia, and Kusari all have their equivalents of "pirate plagues" that cause a great deal of instability throughout the entire Sirius Sector. How COULD they stand up to the Coalition if they decided to come?

Edited by - F/A-18 Hornet on 15-04-2003 22:46:56

Well, there's one thing to consider:
Communism (atleast in the forms we've seen it during the last century) just doesn't work.
Maybe, shortly after the Coalition lost the enemy that united them, the people decided they no longer wanted to live in a dictatorship, causing the Coalition to break apart into anarchy, probably causing some sort of new dark age during which former Coalition planetary governors and naval commanders kept weakening each other with small conflicts.

I'm not sure if the Coalition was actually communist, more the people were just limited in terms of rights. Russia isn't communist anymore, there's no reason to assume they will be again. China is only communist to a small degree, they've radically altered both Stalinism and Marxism to suit them. The Middle East, as we've seen recently, is just run by dictators. Communism, if carried out correctly, should mean there is no need for a single ruler when achieved as everyone is equal, working for a common good. No-one with special treatment, or money. If I remember there were some dignitaries in the Coalition.

I would imagine that after a war of over 100 years, few people would want to start another war. In fact, much the opposite: After just short wars the government gains mass approval through patriotism. Imagine how long that support would last after over 100 years... by that time, the government would be so consolidated there would be little or no chance of rebellion. And oppressive governments, as I said before, often motivate their workers to be much more efficient. Under Stalin, Russia came from a backward, agricultural country who relied on others for their technology. By WW2 they were on a par with Germany, though with a less skilled military.

If the Alliance managed to get further away from Sol than 8 light years, it wouldn't take long for the Coalition to catch up. Even if that base they were building the sleeper ships in had been badly damaged, there would probably be some useful information there. If only evidence of the manufacturing process from the machinery they had there. And the Coaltion were the first to develop warp gate technology, so they obviously have the skills needed for high-speed travel development.

Heh heh, well, that "worker's utopia" thing is just an idealistic vision. In reality, communism will NEVER be able to reach such a state. It is human nature to hold onto positions of power as long as possible, which is why once you give a small group of people absolute power as all communist governments do ("dictatorship of the proletariat", my a$$), it will corrupt them absolutely and they will try to hang onto it indefinitely.

And Communism isn't exactly known for efficiency either. That's why one always see Soviets lining up to pick up rations at stores with nearly empty shelves, and why Soviet products were almost always shoddy. This extends to military products as well; how the West had military technology that is generally better than the East bloc even though the West spends only 12% of its GDP on the military while the Soviets spent 35%. In World War Deuce, the Germans had the technological advantage throughout the war. Better planes, better artillery, better small arms. The only thing the Russians had that was slightly better than the Germans was the T-34 tank. Why did the Germans lose? Because Hitler in his arrogance never studied history and made the same mistake Napoleon made-- Both failed to realize the Russian Winter is their greatest enemy.

Back to the Freelancer storyline... 8 light years is not very far, especially if one can travel between star systems in Freelancer (which must be separated by light-years of distance as well). I guess the storyline writers just didn't realize how close Sirius is to Sol.
Can the Alliance sleeper ships make a clean getaway and leave little or no trace of where they are headed? That probably can be done. Say a 100-megaton thermonuclear bomb in that base where they built the sleeper ships set to detonate after they leave.

Ah ha! Perhaps I have found something here! I bet since there were two stories that in the first the Sirius sector was meant to be a quick getaway and it wouldn't really matter since the Coallition got blown to kingdom-come and the Nomads were the only enemies. But when they switched over to Story Numba II they forgot to change the distination, The Sirius Sector cant be the star Sirius since there is no nebulae like those inclusion the sector inbetween us a Sirius so either they forgot to change those things or something just went incredibly wrong with the guidance system and they went somewhere else (Like in Starcraft) and called it the Sirius Sector by mistake (Think Christopher Columbus and his 'Indians') its quite possible this mistake stuck.

"It is said that revenge is a dish best served cold, it is very cold in space."
~Khan, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

I don't think that there are many nebulae with alien cells visibly floating around in them... they were added to give hiding places to pirates, and to make everywhere look a little prettier. I'm quite shocked when I see a black sky at night now.

8 light years isn't far for a ship with FTL drive, but those sleeper ships looked like they 'jumped' out of Sol. And if you remember the jump drives from Starlancer, it took several jumps just to get from one side of a planet to another. Sure, it'll have been beefed up over a hundred years, but it still wouldn't be all that fast. The travelling between systems in Sirius requires jump gates, and those have to be built on either end. Or jump holes. I imagine the journey to each system to construct a jump gate would be quite long, unless they found a jump hole (I never understood why they didn't just build a frame around one of those and claim it was a jump gate, save a lot of money). Otherwise they wouldn't have had to build the jump gates in the first place (well, that and it saved the designers having to figure out a way to load all the systems on the same map without a loading screen. And it'd have been fairly easy to find them all, and fairly hard to lock some of them for certain missions).

No, I am talking about the 4 nebulae around Sirius, you know the Blue one (I think this is the Barrier and not a nebula at all perhaps) The Orange one the Red One and the Green One, If you look at the star Sirius you dont have these nebulae between here and there.

"It is said that revenge is a dish best served cold, it is very cold in space."
~Khan, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

When I first saw the map on the net, before it was released here, I thought they were just territorial markers, to distinguish between the houses. They obivously aren't now I know what the systems are. I can't say anything, other than they are there purely for decoration and gaming purposes.
THough the nebulae on the universe map aren't randomly placed, if you think about it: The Border Worlds such as the Omicron systems do have those green, organism populated nebulae. The Territories south of Rheinland do have those orange-coloured nebulae surrounding dying suns. Several territories within Bretonia and the Tau systems have blue ice nebulaes.
But they are, I think, just there for decoration and gaming purposes. Unless Digital Anvil have some high-tech telescope hidden somewhere in the Solar System that they haven't told us about... given the length of time it took Freelancer to be made, it wouldn't surprise me :S.