---

I noticed tthat most people that voted against DS are all or mostly OT posters. Who rarely venture outside OT and into the FL forums. And if some post in the FL forums, it's nothing but lame comments to their friends from OT because they happened to post in a FL thread.

---

That is not true!!! I help out as many newbs as i can in FL as i can and i am a respected member of OT. I've seen many OT vets that have done the same as me like Indy, Taw, Darky, Final (before he became a mod) to name but a few

Edited by - Gowserpaul on 11/9/2004 11:08:36 AM

Um, Taw left (so not really a good example) and Final supports DS (as far as I can tell). The rest I can't speak for.

What I support, is TLR. I had to pick up the game, DS to know about it. It's not bad, and I will learn more about it and the newer one when it is out. Until Freelancer 2 comes out, this site would go down hill without branching out. There are only so many times that you can ask, What is your favorite ship. It will give those who are bored with fl a new life and FL is still there for those who want to continue to mod it, play on line or what ever they want. It provides more options. As I have said so many times, its ike a broken record, I like being here to meet new people from al over the world. The game is second. Enjoy all of the site, as we grow.

i wasn't commenting on who supports the new move, i was just not happy about the comment shodan made about us vets not helping newbs

Way I see it, whether DS or any other game is added to the TLR plate is not the issue. If those who are investing their own time and money to keep the site going deem it to be a necessity, who am I to tell them to stop? Do I have to like it? No. If it really does rub me the wrong way, all I have to do is stop visiting.
In the notorious words of Ross Perot: "It's that simple."

On the other hand, if the site is open to comment and critique then I will throw my two, three, four bits into it. I'll make my criticisms and suggestions. That's what's wanted isn't it? I don't have to be "right," I just have to care enough to say something whjich may or may not prove to be useful ... if only to prompt the powers that be to do the direct opposite of what's suggested.

As far as it goes, I can understand why some of us who pretty much only frequent the OT may be seen to be "non-contributors" who act too clubby. Well, golly jeepers folks, if you hang out in one place long enough and swap enough commentary with the same guys on a regular basis, guess what? You've got a group of friends who prefer to talk to each other because they know each other Boy, of all the nerve, eh? ....to think that people in the OT actually might be preferentially friendlier toward people they've known for a while.

If the OT is a drag on TLR's survival, I'm sure that a way will be devised for it to disappear or become radically changed to get rid of us "snobs." I kind of got the impression that the OTcurrently at least is viewed as a "salable" feature of the site.... then again, I could be wrong.

Actually Indy, to haul you up on some points:

---

to think that people in the OT actually might be preferentially friendlier toward people they've known for a while

---

No-one has a problem with that, and that wasn't the problem! It was the perceived hostility towards anyone new, with flaming, that was the problem. The general tone at one point was a definate feel of hostility towards anyone new, or anything new.

No-one mentions snobs, I mention an elitist attitude, where a few self important people think that they should be able to have their own forum whereby they can discuss anything against forum rules in general, whilst dicatating whom is worthy to join them, and who isn't.
If you want to call that snobs........then yes, I will call everyone with that personal view a 'snob'. Simply put - being a member for a year doesn't grant people the right to try and stifle anyone elses interaction/integration into a community that exists. In a very simple way, that is what the 'snobs' are trying/hoping for. Since no-one was attempting to do this to the 'snobs' when they joined, I find it slightly disparaging that they now seek to do it unto others...

However, I have made my opinion on this point repeatedly, and I won't repeat it again


As for feedback about other points - Growser, I think you miss the point that there are more than just 5 'vets' about.

Did no-one notice Baked say that we will hopefully covering a space sim at some point - but a little diversity won't hurt, and will surely help to bring a new breed to FL as well.

Personally there is a choice - moan all you can, and resent everything......which won't lead you to enjoy yourself here really.
OR,

Attempt to integrate with the new surroundings of DS being included. Rest assured Baked and Eraser will be doing all they can to make it fit as best as possible, but all the coding takes time.........as will momentum in the forums (hence the reason for starting them!). Remember, once everything is up and running perfick (could be some time though - coding sites aint a quick deal), you should be able to miss anything DS related through customisation.
And to answer Arcons bemoan about it under site news - well, it is site news Arcon, and if it wans't - then how the heck would anyone even know/see it

@Chips:

I say tomayto and you say tomahto. Elite. ... snob....., etc.

I was responding to /Shodan/.

But I will agree that not all of the regular OT visitors are the most warm and fuzzy of welcoming committees. I recently had negativity toward a newcomer or two.

And certainly, the person who had a hair trigger tendancy to flame a newcomer was out of line. But I don't really recall as much flaming from others besides him and he has since departed. He was kind of a flaming catalyst.

But that also is part of how website communities operate isn't it? The hostility to newcomers part. It is far from a TLR monopoly. It is something that needs to be handled. It isn't something that can legislated away. We all just need to be reminded that we were newcomers too, perhaps all too repeatedly to the person who is doing the reminding but repeatedly all the same.

And as far as my own "hostility to newcomers" is concerned, it wasn't triggered by all of them, just a specific few and I don't think, in the end, it had anything to do with them being newcomers. It had to do with what was being said and done by them who, also, turned out to be newcomers.

firstly, bp, im never happy
secondly, im going to post without passion from now on in here. seems that gets taken as whining

my problems that need fixing:
customise doesnt work
it MIGHT work but not for firefox. i've disabled the hotshot, the search bar, the links to the latest posts (where is that anyway?) the developers links, i've only enabled starlancer and freelancer as my news items, i've selected 5 news posts only.
NONE of these settings work.

the site compacts to the side in firefox
see other thread

news people stick every news item in a single post
this negates choosing only 5 items of news really dont you think?

news people stick far too many pictures in a single post
shirley 2 is enough?

news people incorrectly catagorise the news items
news about servers and editing files is put under freelancer, i know its FOR freelancer but maybe they should be under editing. Or stick in a few more catagories. People who check out the site for server updates for their latest mods or new admin scripts etc. might only care about those. Customising it so you could be more specific would be nice and simple to create.

--

@Wiz: But if you think another game will be better, come and join the staff and put alot of your free time in this website

i would do. the opportunity never came up. i wouldnt mind at all implementing some changes first hand. not too sure if that would go down well with the other members of staff, but i'd gladly have a tinker behind the scenes. might get to steal some ideas in the process code wise.

In regards to the "customisation" feature, are you running a firewall such as ZA Arcon? What about your security/cookie settings? Do they allow for all cookies or only some? Remember also that Firefox is still technically in the beta stage.

Well, they will try and fix the problem with the amount of posts, as they are aware of it Arcon - but Baked and Eraser have more important things to do with real life than just try and make sure everyone is happy! If it were as simple as clicking the fingers and everything was fixed, then they would be happy, AND its not their coding they are taking over - its someone elses (Bargibs). I do love the way you state my problems that need fixing . Wow, how very....whats the word now................

By the way, at the bottom of the main page.......it says best viewed with internet explorer 6.x .
The problem is with firefox, as it doesn't display the width of 'empty space' so to speak. There must be a way to rectify this, but of course, since this was probabily coded before firefox..........







Maybe learning some patience, and tolerance would go a long way, especially when those you make demands off of are being tolerant towards you.....

Just food for thought.

Edited by - Chips on 11/10/2004 12:11:12 AM

*gutlaughes* aww bless chips, you're allll right

actually, thanks to wiz for making me see some things. i'd totally forgotten about sites as large and successful as TLR totally dedicated to the homeworld games and the likes. my apologies.

i still think that some relation from a space-game themed site to other space games might be healthy to the community and also bring those closed into TLR onto other sites, meet new people and such (for the benefit of those totally crazy about TLR)

and about arcons problem, i run ZA firewall too. used to be on pro, trial, then onto the normal, free one. i dont have problems with either. maybe firefox isn't the best browser out there

ASP was written mainly for use by MS products (ie. IE ) if memory serves. Therefore, it is logical to assume that a "young" browser such are Firefox may have problems with it. However, the problems would presumably be present in Netscape, Opera, and Mozilla tas well due to the differences in the code.

@chips those were just some promenant examples, im not exactly going to write down the full list of vets now am i