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Freelancer vs. Privateer

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:06 am

Unlike the previous Wing Commanders, which tend to become unplayably fast on Pentiums , Privateer 1 will run extremely well on your machine.

I myself originally played it on a Pentium 60 Mhz with 8 Megs of RAM, and later on a 300 Mhz machine with 64, and on both machines the game ran perfectly smooth, with the gameplay keeping its normal speed.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:24 am

Dave, Privateer's game pace is clocked; a faster CPU will give you a faster framerate, but the game pace will remain as its authors intented -- even on a 2 GHz machine!

(A "faster frame-rate" means your flight experience will feel more smooth.)

WhiteTiger, as for Freelancer, ripping out the flight engine and replacing it with a hamster wheel (or certain other species of rodentia) doesn't give cause for optimism.

On a more optimistic note, have you looked at X2? Wow, it looks fantastic!

X and its sequel were kind of a "baby step" for the flight model I think; with X2 it looks like Egosoft has really entered the big leagues. I've GOT to get my hands on a demo!

Did you know that X2 will allow players to write their own missions, which the X2 team will review periodically and put into the game? How cool is that?

The biggest reason I'm optimistic is that even in X the ship felt perfect. The handling was smooth, the controls intuitive, it just felt right. The problem with X was the environment the ship was in -- space itself just didn't have that "real" feeling, and the speeds, object sizes, and weapon ranges weren't quite balanced right for dogfighting.

X2 looks so good I can't imagine it not feeling "real". Even if the scale is such that an enemy fighter is pixel-sized until just before you zing past him, if it has that "real" feel I'll just learn to slow down.

Incidentally, the best-scaled space shooter ever was X-Wing ... things that were far away took a long time to get to; things you fought were big enough and weapon ranges short enough that you rarely found yourself dogfighting with pixel-sized blobs (at the "I can't tell that blob of pixels is a spaceship" range you're waiting for a missile lock), and speeds and weapon ranges were balanced such that you had time to duel an oncoming opponent before he zinged past. It was also a little too easy -- in order to be challenging the missions had to task you to ridiculous extremes.

But I digress ... anyone happen to preview X2? How does it feel?

Edited by - Aye Capn on 14-02-2003 01:29:27

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:09 am

Thanks for the help on this. One last question. Do you have to use a joystick with privateer? Or can you use keyboard and mouse? Thanks again.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:31 am

@Aye Capn:


WhiteTiger, as for Freelancer, ripping out the flight engine and replacing it with a hamster wheel (or certain other species of rodentia) doesn't give cause for optimism.


Will you shut up now? we already know you're not going to buy it, there's no reason to spoil it for the rest of us who happen to like it. Edit that part NOW before a mod does it for you!

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:00 am

Aye has a chance to redeem himself - but only ONE chance - if he blows it: All I can say is that I hope you won't be hearing from him again...

Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:01 pm

Dave, Privateer does not require a joystick -- you can use a keyboard and mouse.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:23 pm


The biggest reason I'm optimistic is that even in X the ship felt perfect. The handling was smooth, the controls intuitive, it just felt right. The problem with X was the environment the ship was in -- space itself just didn't have that "real" feeling, and the speeds, object sizes, and weapon ranges weren't quite balanced right for dogfighting.


Personally, I hated the extremely inert (especially with the faster craft in X-Tension) controls.

For me, X and X-Tension (and most likely X2 as well) are trying too much to be a complex trading / corporate managing game in space, instead of an immersive action game. There's nothing wrong with this, but it just doesn't suit my interests in games.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:39 pm

As this is a thread about Privateer, I try posting my questions here... I made a thread, but it seems to have been deleted for being off-topic..

1. How do ECM work? I buy Mk.3, but still get hit by like all missiles fired at me.

2. How do I.R. and F.F. missiles work? I never get them to lock on like the H.S.

I know there's a lot of Privateer expertise here. Anyone able to help me?
(trying to run through P1 before FL comes out)

"You're never alone with a rubber duck!" - Golgafrincham Captain

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:50 pm

F.F. missle can be launched at any time. They will automaticaly target and track the nearest foe within their range.
I don't remember how the I.R. ones behave. Unless they are the dumbfire type rockets, in which case they have no guidance.

Countermeasures do work but not consistantly. Remember that you must also evade after using the countermeasures. As the missle that has been disrupted by your countermeasures will no longer track you but still follow it's last course.
And if you happen to still be in the same spot it will hit you.
it's always wise to turn at a right angle from your previous course after you drop countermeasures.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:00 pm

@Thadlerian: I don't think your thread is deleted. It's just moved to the Off Topic forum.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:55 pm

Just a quick Privateer question... Were there any benefits to befriending the Kilrathi? I remember after beating the storyline mission in Righteous Fire I went on a killing spree of all miltia/confed/merchants and had a blast. Eventually the pirates liked me, but after killing something like 200 confed, 160ish militia and merchants (and I God knows how many bounty hunters) the Kilrathi started to like me. When I commed them they would say things like "Fear not human, my claws are sheathed, my belly is full." Anyone find any benefits to this other than just knowing you betrayed your race?

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:14 pm

I.R. - Image Recognition - you must have an upgraded Radar and lock in the target (i think a diamond encases the target) then fire...

((if my memory hasn't left me))

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:52 pm

DVX is correct. You must have a least an Mk II level radar otherwise the IR missiles won't lock on. FF missiles can be fired at any time an they automatically track nearest enemy.

Post Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:00 pm

** DISCLAIMER ** What I'm about to say is based on in-flight observation, and is in some cases at variance with game documentation!

FF missiles appear to have 2 "modes", a "fire-and-forget" mode and a conventional "lock" mode. If you fire one without a missile lock, it homes in on the nearest enemy; locking a target overrides the FF target acquisition and the FF homes in on the locked target.

The "fire-and-forget" mode seems highly unreliable -- although its accuracy might be improved by a threat-detecting radar (Hunter and B&S lines). In my experience even with the best radar [B&S Omniscience they don't seem to work very well in this mode.

The "Mark I" versions of all radars lack the ability to lock targets. The "Mark II" radars can lock targets. The "Mark III" radars have a "target lead indicator" which makes it easier to aim your guns. (I use it as an enemy ship vector indicator; by the time you can afford a Mk3 radar your aim will have become better than the radar's, but it's much easier for you to aim if you know exactly where and how fast the enemy ship is going.)

If you're firing guided missiles and they're not tracking, it's because you're not getting a "double box" indicating a missile lock. You need to see a box within the "target lock" box, which looks like a diamond -- an inscribed rectangle with verticies at the midpoints of the sides of the "target lock" box. Remember, there are two kinds of "lock": target lock, which you get by pressing "L", and missile lock, which can ONLY happen if you've locked the target, the target is in missile range (around 8k I think), and any additional requirements of the missile itself are met. (HS requires the enemy show you his tailpipe; IR requires time; FF locks instantly.) Also watch out for your guns -- give a little pause after a missile launch so your missiles will clear your field of fire. Your guns' muzzle velocity isn't much higher than the missile's flight velocity, so you don't have to wait long.

ECM (and this is in the manual somewhere) does NOT help you once a missile is fired at you! What is DOES do is delay your opponents' ability to aquire you. Since even a Tarsus can loose 6 missiles on 3 attackers in under 10 seconds, time is all you need.

There is a "lock warning" indicator on your radar telling you you've been painted. When that happens your ECM has already been compromised. If you really don't want to get hit by a missile, watch for one to be launched on radar after the "LOCK" warning, hit the afterburner, and keep your ship at a 90 degree angle to it (use your radar for this) until it runs out of fuel. On those rare occasions when it hits you, at least you'll take the impact on the less-vulnerable side armor.

I personally prefer to maintain a more aggressive profile; instead of trying to evade when outnumbered in a dogfight I look for ships that are directly facing me and go head-on against them with only enough maneuvering to trade damage to the sides of my ship for the chance to make quick kills with missiles ... but that uses up a lot of missiles.

Hmm, come to think of it, that's why I havent been able to get to the Steltek Gun with the Tarsus. Under normal circumstances my reasoning for maximum aggression is sound: in a Tarsus time is against you, so you should get a fight overwith as quickly as possible. Going for the Steltek Gun in the Tarsus is a test of endurance -- one I failed by running out of missiles before making it back to Rygannon. A more defensive style might just work!

A little note about the Centurion: its speed advantage is negated in an asteroid field, so the skills you learn in the Tarsus you'll find very useful in the Centurion.

Hope this helps!

Post Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:22 am

X / X-tension / X2, continued

Hmm, what do you mean by "inert"? Do you mean the ships should turn tighter or that attitude control should be calibrated so as to give more of the ships' available turn radius sooner? Or something else? (I know it's hard to put precise words to why a ship feels right or wrong ...)

My only minor complaint about flying the X ship was the afterburner: the wobble was overdone and the weird distortion effect very annoying (if not gratuitously psychadelic).

The Freespace 2 "afterburner jolt" is pretty cool; I suspect it's there for gameplay, though, to keep us from "tapping" like we did in Privateer. The design philosophy seems to be "punching the afterburner is a big deal, not a way to cheat your speed up a little." It worked for me; Freespace 2 is the only sim that ever made me grit me teeth before punching the afterburner ...

Oh, right, back to X2: the "Sim Space Corporation" aspect of X2 doesn't bother me, but it doesn't interest me either. I'm in agreement with you to this degree: in the Elite / Privateer genre the flight model is the foundation; the trade model is the house. It takes both to make you want to live there, but if the foundation needs work, decorating the house with window dressing is a fatal diversion of resources, and the cool thing about the house is the Hot Rod in the garage, anyway [your ship.

Privateer didn't have the best flight model, but it was good. X2 doesn't have to be "Freespace 3", but it has to be good. Privateer's "trade model" was merely a clever facade, but it worked brilliantly. X2 sets a new standard in manufacturing and distribution trade simulation -- I'm glad it does, but it doesn't really need to.

That said, the "overachiever" attitude of the X2 designers toward the game and their philosophy of offering diverse choices to players is reassuring. There's just one thing they need to get right that we don't already know they got right.

I've only seen X2, not flown it, so I don't know whether they got it right. The game reviewers certainly think so ... and it looks good enough to me I'd swim all the way to Germany for a demo!

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