If it just runs when WoW is enabled... well, HL Anti-Cheat does the same things, and it's pretty un-controversial. Can't say that I really object to somebody judiciously poking around my system if I'm participating in a MMORG and the designers want to keep people from violating the TOS. Given Diablo II's checkered past in this regard, it's no wonder that Blizzard is concerned about this issue.

They shouldn't be poking around on your system at all, check the actual game files perhaps - but nothing more!

Oh, by the way Esky - X2 (European) had something called "Starforce" as its copy protection, something that people say is evil . Of course, its "Deep Silver" the publisher whom are responsible. Strangely enough, the US release (Koch I think - but the same company as Deep Silver, just the US arm) use a less evil copy protection.

Isn't that supposed to be an anti-bot measure as well? Since there are ways to make real money plaing these games, bots being the way to level up and / or gain weapons or powers and stuff, I understand there is an underground market comprised of bot owners who sell levelled up characters and weapons, etc., and the MMORPG are trying to stop it.

I tend to agree with Mike. Some companies go TOO far with copy protection, and programs that install themselves without informing the user prior to the game's purchase , ie. by stating the use of such tools on the box, are some of the worst. I do not want to have to purchase a game, take it home, reimage my PC, install the game, read the EULA, see that the game uses spyware, and then uninstall the game and try to return it for a full refund. As for Valve and "Steam" Argh... you should know how I feel about them now .

Edited by - esquilax on 10/13/2005 5:29:43 PM

Starforce is evil, very evil. I have Splinter Cell 3, and there's no way (yet) to run it w/o the CD easily.

As to WoW poking around, it can't be much worse than Steam. I mean, if an app is running constantly it's pretty difficult to keep it out of things. What you could do (depending on the app, this probably won't work with WoW) is keep it from sending the data by blocking it from connecting to the internet using ZoneAlarm or something.

(This site is best viewed with your eyes open)

Hate to say it, but if the copy protection requires the CD in the drive, then its illegal to attempt to circumvent the copy protection itself - ie, to run the game without the CD in the drive is illegal.

This is not the issue I have. If you need the CD in the drive to play a game - then you need a CD in the drive to play a game! My issue is that if they are scanning your computer, or the method they use causes instability - then its just not cricket!

Some say the reason to not put the CD in is because it gets scratched. Generally if the CD gets scratched then it is the users own fault for not looking after their stuff properly! I have never had a CD scratched by a CD drive - and even then its not the software manufacturers fault.



Edited by - Mike G on 10/13/2005 11:03:11 PM

Glitch - "Chaos Theory" has "StarForce" too?! Bloody hell, things are far worse than I feared *shakes head in disgust*. Well I'm glad that I didn't pick up the DVD edition of SC3 then .

Esky - you'll have to check what versions (country) people have - Deep Silver (publisher) in Europe use Starforce - so every game that has Deep Silver as their European publisher will use Starforce as anti copy protection.

It may not be the same case in other countries - like AU or US etc.

I've got the CA/US 3 CD version unfortunatly. Granted there are ways around Starforce, it's just such a pain...

As to circumventing the CD requirements, it's not illegal, at least not in Canada. Perhaps in the US with the draconian DMCA (DCMA?) law, but the way I see it if I own a legal license for a game, or any other piece of software, I should be able to do pretty much whatever I want with it (common sense applies). This is called Fair Use, and is quite legal. Think of it this way: The cracked version is my backup, and the CD(s) is/are the primary. This is perfectly legal in damn near every license out there. The fact that I choose to use my backup instead of my primary is no-ones business but mine...

Edited by - Glitch on 10/14/2005 6:13:26 PM

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I should be able to do pretty much whatever I want with it

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Nope, the license doesn't allow you to use the software as you wish to, it allows you to use it. You still don't own rights to it...

It is illegal in Canada to "crack" copy protection, even if for your own backup. However, the chances of the police in Canada ever beating down your door is very slim... so you won't get caught.

Nonetheless - it's still illegal.

Everything has spyware nowadays. Get used to it or get above it, your choice.
I blame the "Windows way", a principle of bundling vast amounts of functions noone asked for... Take any modern win app, say ACDSee. It is a picture viewer. And editor (ok...). That plays mp3s, wmas and wavs (huh?). And all sorts of video clips (again, huh?). It also has a bunch of twain functions (cameras, scanners etc.) and it has a bunch of internet functions (mail a pic, d/l a pic, generate html album...) ... I probably missed a couple more, but you get the point. And all you wanted was a fast pic browser. Some programs openly bundle spyware (DivX codec bundle from www.divx.com, for example, or the radlight player), and refuse to work if the bundled spyware is removed. Things simply went out of hand, and now s/w companies simply slip you a data miner and keep silent about it... I think that in a few years privacy won't be an issue - because there will be none anyway.


>-=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-<
Careful what you wish for... You just might get it.
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Spyware may be everywhere Chet, but it doesn't mean that I have to like it, or patronise the products that use it . As for there being no privacy in modern times... that's another issue .

WoW does indeed have spyware, but that which is used for detecting 3rd party programs, by going through your Dlls, and then scanning the programs that are also running at the same time. You may have your Credit Card Online Banking Provider up on your web browser, Warden, the "spyware" will see it and take note of it. But think about it. If you have WoW installed, You should have an account as well, which means that they already know your Credit Card Number, etc. I for one am not very concerned about it.

Officer! I swear to drunk I'm not God!

If it detects nothing, then it shouldn't communicate any details about your computer. If it does, then it is spyware - because it is/could be harvesting your data instead and communicating it without your permission. It doesn't need to communicate ANYTHING back - unless it finds a cheat.

But it does beg the question - to what cost are we going to stop cheaters from playing online games? Steam (afaik) hashes your game to check for cheats, and when playing online it will check your logged into steam and that the account is a valid one. But if WoW will scan your computer, what if other games follow this path? We'll be having our computers scanned by everyone who wants to scan them - for no real reason at all other than to stop a few people from cheating.

Is it not possible to code games that stops the ability to cheat?