aniso, if i were you, i'd lay off the heavy siding with this entropy game of yours. im sure it rocks hard and all. then again, i could say the same about a new homeworld game in an X2 forum and they couldn't give a flying **** about it.

and your opinions *will* extremely vary from the next dude that comes along. i could say starcraft mops the floor with CS. but CS fans wont say the same would they?

so i strongly suggest laying off the heavy advertising. there will never be a best game ever as no game will satisfy the entire population of a single genre. (let alone all gamers)

It's vaporware. Non-released. Non-public. Screenies and hype, without even any code samples, and screenshots of markedly different levels of quality- for example, one of them shows what looks like DOT3 bumpmapping and some near-raytrace-quality lighting, but most look like a 3rd-rate OpenGL engine.

When it's released, it's real. You seem not to've been around as many dev. projects as I have... I've seen dozens of games reach this stage and then die, because getting the last 5% done is often the hard part, and debugging is a royal pain.

For all we know, it's just a programmer giving us lots of promises with a tech demo. So yes, it's vaporware, and I'm not taking that back.

And no, I don't "hate" it... I'm offering my informed opinion, based on nearly a decade of working on games, both video games and traditional boardgames, wargames and RPGs, plus reading through what's on the game's website. I'm not going to go there and flame the author, k? I hope the author gets it done, and that it's much better than it looks, just like you do- for your sake and everybody else who's convinced that this is going to be super-cool. But I don't believe that that's the truth.

What I see looks like very hopeful vaporware... that isn't done, and when it's done... will probably not be very good. The author is clearly very dedicated to the ideas behind the game, but I don't see a lot of signs that he/she is focused enough on the game design to make it fun. There's a huge difference between having clever ideas and some code to execute them... and having a good game design.

What I see thus far sounds a lot less impressive (as a game) than something built with a lot of human art and careful game design elements in it.

For example, who cares if there are billions of places to fly, if they're empty of anything of interest? I mean... it's not like there are going to be aliens that can have new conversations, for example- even the best AI researchers on earth can't do that yet. So it's just going to be more of the same... with different fractal height and mipmaps around the planets... oooh, that's exciting... not.

Even when Battlecruiser 3000AD was finally (mainly, kind've) bug-free... it was still an absolutely terrible game design . It was empty-feeling and uninteresting, and ultimately... I felt like I was mainly being pigeonholed by Erik Smart into a role that was neither fun nor intellectually stimulating Nobody has to agree with me here, of course- I know that some people loved that game, and many others I've not enjoyed. I'll be the first to say that I'm extremely picky

This game shows all of the same signs of overweening ambition and lack of common sense. Building "endless gaming" is a waste of time- if you're not focused on the gameplay elements (which are, and always will be, constrained by finite rules)... you're just building an empty simulation of nothing going nowhere, fast. Who cares if eventually you can be the Grand Poohbah of Planet no. 1,399,132,311 in the "endless universe"? Nobody will ever visit you (the author even has a screenie demonstrating that this is extremely unlikely), and the aliens you're the Poohbah of aren't going to be interesting... so who cares? Not me, that's for sure...

Freelancer is a good game design with flaws. There's a difference. Freelancer could be fixed, and modders have already fixed many of its problems. They've added more interesting gameplay, made existing Factions more interesting to interact with, and generally improved the existing game... or they've gone as far as the Freeworlds mod team, and built a whole new experience (which, imho, is superior in many respects to the original, in terms of completeness).

@kimk
Actually i am not trying to convince other players that its "Best game ever".
I am just trying to attract some attension to the Entropy project.
Through thnx for your comment.

@Argh
Look, man, i am not trying to convince you or anybody here.
Ofcourse you are a FL fan, and so may others, and everybody here will give bad comments about this game since thay love FL (at the point of kimk).

Entropy is not vairpor (or something)
And precedural endless art is not like in BC300A0D, precedural is like seeing millions of human work, everything in Entropy would be desgined to the final stage, everything, including precedural art.
I hate hand-coded, ok?, i dont like the game industy of today, i like precedural gaming.

Entropy is 99% done!
And is not 5% like an other poor non-relesed project (e.g. TEP, Gallileo Project etc... etc...).
Entropy is forward to finishing this year, and there 'NO' chance of seeing it canceled.
Since Eth is not beeing rushed, and no one is rushs him saying "you have 2 days to finish this!".

Everything in Entropy would be interesting to see, even if you've played it 5 years, theres still a lot to see, its not like seeing a half galaxy with no stars, but only planets.
Everything in Entropy would be 100% to its final detail.
the screens are a bit old, did you read the FAQ on HabNet?, no, then read it.

I am here to just let you all know about this upcoming project, but as kimk sais, what kind of attension i'll get here!?
none.

ROFL.

Ok... enough...

1. I am not a FL fanboy. I've critiqued it pretty sharply in various places around here, and I don't think it's the Best Game Ever (my vote's split between Civ 1, Quake 1 Fallout and Total Annihilation for that title).

2. You're getting negative remarks because what you're saying flies in the face of common sense. Procedural programming techniques aren't going to create the same kind of coherent magic you see in a commercial title with dozens of artists working towards a common goal. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth- random numbers <> art...

3. Saying you hate "hand-coded"... you should hate Entropy too... <laughs>. It's "hand-coded" just like everything else is. What makes it special is the amount of random noise the system uses to generate new rulesets, not that it's "hand-coded". And saying you don't like "hand-coded" games... even if I accept your nebulous definition at face value... means that you didn't like Grand Theft Auto... or Half-Life... or ... I think we're seeing a trend here, so I'll stop.

4. You act like it's going to be awesome, and you haven't even played it. You titled your thread "the best game ever"... and then expected us to leave you be? C'mon guy... do you invest in bridges? Cuz I just happen to own several very nice ones, and I'd love to sell them to you for a very nice price

All computer games are based on rules. All of them have limits. Some seem to have "fewer" than others... and sometimes that's a good thing, but in most cases, it just results in a game design that's sloppy and unfocused. Freelancer's saving grace, imho, was its single-player campaign... which was very tight.

But let's think about this whole "hand-coded" thing a little more:

Some day, we'll have a perfect simulation. It'll look like the real world, act like the real world... it'll be like Life itself. It'll be perfect, and full of the random chance that creates Change in the real world.

And then people will complain about not being able to fly, and that'll be added. And then people will want to be able to stage Alien Invasions, complete with Little Green Men... and that'll be added. Things will get added, forever... but they will always follow rules . Always. The rules may get so complicated that human beings can only program them by sitting down with an AI and patiently describing them to the AI until it "gets it", and implements the millions of rules that result in the desired experience... but there will be rules. Humans may not be able to comprehend their subtleties... there won't be any definative Strategy Guides (except for the ones written by AIs, which will be incomprehensible to people)... but there will be rules.

Whether or not the rules are any good depends on somebody making judgements about "what is good", and then implementing it. And then dodging hate mail from everybody who disagrees

And that's just all there is to it. So... uh... get over it. What Elf's doing is neither revolutionary nor unique- I've seen projects like his dozens of times, some of which have even seen the light of day. And hopefully, if it's released (I'm not going to say "when", because that's asking too much from a realist)... it won't suck as a game. And you'll be happy with the empty planets, the missions that all look the same, and the other limitations imposed by the rules.

@Argh
Disagree we both have diffrent thoughts.

"And that's just all there is to it. So... uh... get over it. What Elf's"

Its Eth!

"doing is neither revolutionary nor unique- I've seen projects like his dozens of times,"

Really, you mean you saw his older porjects?, thats strange, i dont remember him doing any projects excep Entropy, why wont you give me proves?

"some of which have even seen the light of day. And hopefully, if it's released (I'm not going to say "when", because that's asking too much from a realist)... it won't suck as a game. And you'll be happy with the empty planets, the missions that all look the same, and the other limitations imposed by the rules."

Not at all, The planets will use real planetry rendring with trees, grass, alien floura.
The missions may all be diffrent and Dynamical that may reflect your future in the game, its not the same as FFE.

I dont understand what you trying to make here out of this conflict, i like procedurals programing, and thats not going to change, not even a Hand-Coded game with millions of bugs and ended possibiltys made by a man, fin?

Edited by - AnisoFFE (Frontier) on 12/3/2004 2:37:53 PM

the argument that this game is a hoax I can say is false there have been beta/alpha testers who've had good reports. That said, it doesn't mean this is necesseraly a good game, just refrain from that argument, quite frankly it sucks.

If you've been following this guy for a while he has had previous projects although they weren't released to the public.

FFE I think what he means by "I've seen many projects like his" is that he has seen many freelance projects LIKE his just dissapear. But then again, look at Elite? That was coded by 2 guys...and is pretty much infinte.

"FFE I think what he means by "I've seen many projects like his" is that he has seen many freelance projects LIKE his just dissapear."

Eth had not made any projects, Entropy is his only project that he was working around for two years.
And again, its 'NOT' going to dissapear.
If Entropy was going to be cancled or dissapeard, you wont see any Entropy by today.
Entropy is going to be relesed on 2005 and thats for certain.


"But then again, look at Elite? That was coded by 2 guys...and is pretty much infinte."

Elite isnt infinte, i rather say from my personal taste that, its unrealistic, boring, and pointless. (no offense)
Only one thing got me hooked on Elite for a small amount of time, and its the Dynamic AI feature.

Edited by - AnisoFFE (Frontier) on 12/4/2004 7:27:57 AM

Aniso..if you do not like it that people critisise the game do not critisise games they are talking about. If you want to express your personal opinion do not shoot down other people's personal opinions.

I was talking about the elite series, that includes FFE, wich you usually have such high praise for. And the universe is pretty much infinite.

You still don't get it. He's NOT talking about Eths other projects just projects LIKE Eths that have failed.

@sycho warrior
I am not critizing, i am just giving my own true personal thought about Elite.

and the others are giving their own personal feelings about Entropy

Do you have any links so i can see what it is i have never heard of it

- - - - - -

linky
it was in the main post...you just had to look harder.

bp and eraser, sorry for adding extra hardware to this forum, but these threads are just getting out of hand. Electric Brain, Stinger, and I were the primary instigators in creating an off-topic forum because we would (often very amusingly) find creative ways to get off the topic at hand. Bargib finally agreed to one, albeit with some reservations.
I'm seriously ready to petition the moderators to get rid of this forum. It's this type of crap I kept seeing at other game sites that made me come here and avoid the kiddie crapola that's going on much too often here. Grow up people, and make this an enjoyable place to get away from the turmoil of daily life and have an enjoyable place to rest and maybe get a laugh or two.
Seriously, for now, we should shut down this forum.
Boscoe

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