well, i don't have it either, even though I have a 256mb 9800 pro. but then again i don't believe in these s'ware overdrive/overclocking utilties, you can never really tell what they're doing. All my clock tweaks are done via the bios, and with this MSi m/b it's pretty much all done for me anyway

whose Raddy have you had? Sapphire, Hercules? there are slight oem variances.
are these the drivers that came with the card or the latest drivers from Ati? You know that even though the hardware is excellent, the Catalyst driver suite leaves a lot to be desired. it's one area that Nvidia do have the drop over Ati.

I must confess I've never used the Ati control centre. In short, i don't know. sowwee.

Yea, it is a powercolour raddy.
Anyway, yea, when i get my new
MSI Neo2-PFS Platinum, i'll see

<EDIT> um, yes these ar ethe latest catalyst 4.9
drivers, caused a couple of screw-ups once installed
but now i've got them under my grasp, and they are
working fine.</EDIT>

BTW, do you know what the max safe
operation temperatur for a radeon 9800pro is?

'cause i wanna set my fan controller to beep
when i gets too hot...

Edited by - Aod on 9/16/2004 3:33:49 AM

ah, Powercolour. if you have the 128mb version then you may well run into trouble, they have a heat-dispersal flaw and a memeory issue with certain batches. I went through two in two weeks and then swapped em out for a Sapphire 256mb, which is much more reliable.

shame because Powercolour are normally very good cards and they aren't cheap either.

Mines normally at 50C in 3d games and 45C in 2d applications
other than that, i've had not one single problem with it.

*HIJACK!!!*

Thread hijacking......for my own personal gain


Okay - so when I turned on my PC, i was greeted by a message that the primary master drive had failed (My hard drive) - and if you didn't press del to go into setup - but pressed F1 - it would then say something like NTFL missing - and wouldn't boot.

Needless to say, my cunning on watching the HDD light, listening to the drive, and that cryptic first error meant that i thought my HDD had died.

Being of a slightly older school than most people, I got out my tool kit, carefully unscrewed the case and removed the side panel. I then gave the HDD a gentle, but firm whack or two with the handle.

It booted up without any issues whatsoever.

My question is.......is this a possible sign of my HDD going on the way out? It has had NO signs whatsoever about this - no derogatory effects in performance whatsoever before today, and is once more working perfectly. Could this be an isolated "jam" or the signs of things worse to come.

More importantly though - is WD and Maxator still good makes to go for, and would i be wiser going for NEW HDD through a site like microdirect..or getting it second hand through something like Computer Exchange (who no longer seem that cheap actually!). Any suggestions?

WD and Maxtor are still very much in the thick of the HDD making competition as is Seagate (for PCs). They both make some rather fast and snappy pieces of.

Taw says that Maxtors run hot so that the likelihood of HDD failure probably is sooner than with a WD or Seagate. I have one and it seems to be true but I've got a 120mm fan blowing on it to keep things under control.

How old is your HDD? Not a good sign that it had been stuck until you ... "freed it up" .... . Are we talking about the same one you brought up last Spring when you asked about SATA drives?

Erm, yep - thats the one! Must be several years old i guess - as i got it second hand. After checking microdirect, I won't be buying a damned thing second hand - will be getting it from that place instead (if possible) as its cheaper, and they are new! Microdirect

I was going to do an overhaul - starting with a new monitor. There are some great cheap CRT ones.....and the 60 quid ones would be a increible improvement upon this one i have at the moment (tis around 8 years old!). Also looking at a graphics card...but now a HDD...and possibly a new processor (I have a 1.7 celeron....not noted for their gaming performance!). The whole upgrade WAS going to be about 150 quid or so, but it could now easily top 250 by the looks for it

buy it from Overclockers UK Chips, and help support me in my new job, not MicroDirect, they're rubbish

don't buy second user stuff unless you really have to, 'tis false economy, hdds are so cheap now anyway. You will find them increasingly SATA though, which is no use if you''re kitted up for IDE only, unless you get a SATA adaptor.

Celerons, well my little spawn boy has a 1.7ghz Celeron in his, and with a reasonable graphics card, they're really not as bad as you think. You'll struggle with it in 6 months time though, but you can get a 2.6 or 2.8 celeron for very few notes, providing your mobo supports it.

as far as your problem is concerned, yes it is prob your hdd, after a while spindles and drive electronics (which is what IDE means) begin to go, often due to heat. it could be the IDE controller on the mobo but I'll bet onthe hdd. Replace it now. And take a backup now, or you'll be saying bye-bye to all your hard work. Ed will confirm that when I say "do a backup now" it's prob a really good idea to do a backup now.

I recommend Seagate Barracuda & WD Raptors for speed and relaiabilty. All drives in my main pc and my server are now Seagate 80gb. Maxtors are blazingly fast, but get hot and the spindles die. also they have a weird electronic problem if they get too hot, and have poor em shielding - I've thrown loads of Maxtors away, but never one of the new Seagates (yet) everything else, Fujitsu, Samsung etc are just cheap cr*p now imo. IBM/Hitachi aren't bad, but for what they cost you can get a Seagate and be like Uncle Taw. dont get an IBM/Deskstar though, they're not called "Death Stars" for nothing.

of course if you're really stuck you can beg me to show pity on you and provide emergency upgrade supplies, but you will have to grovel bigtime and owe me stacks of favours in return! However my goodwill is easily bought with Resse's Golden Cups.

Ooooo sage advice - thanks. I have a "backup" HDD - but tis filled with por......erm - clutter that i don't want to lose Dunno about making a backup, losing stuff is a pain....but at least i would be streamlined once more. If i buy sooner rather than later, i can just have this present one as secondary and copy across instead.


The MOBO i have is still reasonably good - its upgradeable to 3gig, takes 3 gig of mem max, and is SATA compatible - so i might go for a sata drive instead. The main concern apart from the rapidly declining HDD is the graphics card and the monitor

Will do some price comparison between your new job and mirco......but finding stuff on that site is alot easier than micro!
Thanks for the tips/advice!! The begging may come when i work out how much money i have left after the council decide if they supply the vaseline with the council tax bill....



*edit* - oh the shipping looks cheaper. Also - wtf is with the monitor parts....they give all these little details that no-one wants to know. I just wanna know if the damned thing works, is excellent value for money, and not likely to give me a broken spine when i move house again!

Edited by - Chips on 9/17/2004 1:31:41 PM

Yes. Backup. Indeed .... my little D*ll fiasco turned out to be the onboard disk controller and not the HDD but not realized before I ended up trashing all my optical drives and my HDD. But my HDD never was "stuck" as you describe yours to have got.


<Edit>

Too bad your outfits on the other side the Atlantic Taw. I've got shipping and handling charge issues were I to buy from you guys.

Edited by - Indy11 on 9/17/2004 1:36:26 PM

Kinda thinking like:

Monitor: Hyundai ImageQuest Q770S 17'' Perfectly Flat CRT Monitor - Black/Silver (MO-006-HY)

Details


Hard Disk Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80GB SATA 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-003-SE)

Details

Graphics Card: Asus Extreme EN5900/TVD PCX 5900 128MB DDR VIVO TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-043-AS)

Unfortunately - to be honest, graphics cards leave me baffled and struggling to work out what i am after. As per usual - the site is no exception. There seem to be 101 different versions of the same cards with varying prices, which leaves those without a clue....well - baffled. I currently have a nVidia 440MX 64Mb at the moment - and my only complaint is that during playing X2 - the cutscenes and some action scenes are choppy as hell. Frame rate must be WAY down. I had to even remove some graphics enhancements like bump mapping which they recommend you ONLY turn off on bottom end cards. I was told memory means nothing to be honest - its all about the cards quality...so a 256mb card can stilll be worse than a 128 of excellent quality, or worse than a top of the range 64mb one without a doubt. In reality - i don't even want to pretend i have a clue in this area - i just don't want to shell out more than i have to (note the have being really important -ideally i would like to spend less than 100 AFTER vat on a card - but i know its unrealistic!)
Suggestions welcome - but my limit has GOT to be the price on the one i linked there. Make is nothing to me - i am not a die hard fan of either...but the nVidia logo is cool

Any thoughts anyone who wishes to pitch in? feel free to make suggestions! I have just paid off 600 quid on my credit card (not even half of bill), so my spending IS limited this month....the graphics card is one i DO want to upgrade! The Monitor is the priority with the HDD too! Budget? Well - i would love it all for under 200 - but that is unlikely. 250 is the tops.

Monitor is fine. The next monitor i go for will be an Iiyama or a Mitsubishi, but they bost cost q a bit more than the mainstream so I will have to wait until i come into some money..

oh yeh, i just did! (sorry Chips I couldn't resist rubbing it in there!)

the Sonys are a good alternative to your Hyundai.

totally agree with your hdd choice.

what are you prepared to pay for the FX5900? I think you can get a Sapphire Raddy 9800 pro for the same or less. much better card. Unless the Fx your getting ios Golden Sample in which case its the biz but its not. if you must get a nVidia, the Asus is a great choice, though

Ed, you would'nt have to pay 17.5% VAT (sales tax) but if it's still too rich for you, have a word on the sly with me on the secure channel

Taw,

I'll let you know. 17.5% VAT? That's gigantic. Our sales tax is only 8.75%.

I am just finishing up on upgrading a clunky old Pentium Pro I've had sitting around to a P4 using the socket 423 2.0 gHz chip I just liberated by getting that PowerLeap 3 gHz converter for cheap. She's no gaming maven so it'll do. That's what the XP Home is for. Another round of practice before I start my big adventure of a 100% built from parts.

Am giving to an outlaw who needs a home PC.

Project after that will be

<Edit>

Removed irrelevant and wrong comment on AGP cards prior to the latest X800s and 6800s

PS Sony's are VERY good. But Sony is getting out of the CRT monitor business, at least they have here in the US.

Edited by - Indy11 on 9/17/2004 5:36:05 PM

CRT's will be as good as dead soon. TFT is the way. now, I know I've banged on about CRT v TFT before, and at top end woth pro kit (Barco, stuff like that) CRT still have the definition edge, but iin every other respect TFT is superior. the key to TFT is getting your resolution and refresh rate correct, on a 15" TFT you should be at 1024@768 @75hz min, and this way you will have a clearer, more defined and flicker-free image than you'll ever get with a cathode-ray tube, and no distortion.

having said that my Samtron 76e CRT is just fine and dandy, and even space isn't an issue.

explanation for Chips, yes you have it right. while video memory is the main guide everyone goes by, its not the only one and often is misleading. for example, I have a spare old 64mb MX440 that outperfroms in every way a much later FX5200 128mb. The problem with Nvidia is that they dont make cards but cpus, which are then assembled by a legion of different OEMs, all to different standards. For the non-expert buyer its a minefield. ATi however do make some of their own cards and their OEM assemblers are undermuch tighter quality control. Why don't you go for a Raddy 9600 pro or XT, really good cards with plent y of life left in em and you'll still get one for under a ton.

as a rule of thumb, you can't go far wrong if you buy a nVidia with a name on that you recognise, like Asus or Gigabyte. unf if it's got "tek" in it like Wang-tek, Ho-tek, Joy-tek, you know it's going to be Taiwanese low-teck.

back to AoD, I run mine o'cd and my nominal temp is higher than that, but I use a dedicated Raddy cooler/blower with some other cobbled together cooling so my temp comes right down. I wouldn't take it much past the mid 50s, the ic dont like it.

one last thing for Chips, huh, tell me about the dam council tax, another 15% increase for us. And you know the gas is going by 28% don't you? just in time for winter.... in Russia they dont pay for theyre gas or electric, apart from some nominal pittance.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/18/2004 3:10:51 AM