Holy Moly! What''s Going On?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:08 am by Indy11

Mast Irham/European Pressphoto Agency
An injured worker was treated outside the Australian embassy.

At Least 8 Killed in Blast at Australian Embassy in Jakarta
By JANE PERLEZ

Published: September 9, 2004

JAKARTA, Indonesia, Sept. 9 — A car bomb exploded outside the Australian Embassy here today, killing at least eight people, and the Indonesian police chief said the blast was the work of the Al Qaeda-linked Islamic group Jemaah Islamiyah.

The attack, which blew a wide hole in the metal fence protecting the embassy but left the four-story building largely intact, was most likely organized by one of the group's most skilled bomb makers, Azahari Husin, the police chief, Gen. Dai Bachtiar, said.

In the several hours after the blast, which occurred at about 10:30 a.m., a nearby hospital treated 98 people, many of them workers who suffered cuts as windows in their offices in the two 10-story buildings on either side of the embassy were blown out.

The explosion was the third terror attack in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, in less than two years.

A suicide bombing on the Marriott hotel in the same neighborhood as the Australian Embassy killed 12 people in August 2003, and 202 people were killed during an attack on a Bali nightclub in October 2002.

After inspecting the four-yard hole left by the bomb near the embassy gate, the police chief said the bomb was similar in style to those used at the Marriott and Bali sites.

"The modus operandi is very similar to other attacks including the Bali bombings and the Marriott blast," General Bachtiar said. "We can conclude the perpetrators are the same group." He said the police had recovered the chassis number of the car used in the bombing.

In the emergency room of the Metropolitan Medical Center, Maya, 26, a finance director whose office overlooked the embassy, said she heard a "huge blast, one very loud sound."

"I was working at my computer," she said, nursing a badly cut lip and cuts to her hands and arms. "All the furniture was flying away. I fell to the ground."

The eight people who died were all Indonesians, including a guard at the embassy, the police said. Immediately after the blast, witnesses said they saw body parts lying on the road, and pieces of bone in the debris. A police bus that is always parked outside the embassy for protection was destroyed in the blast.

An hour after the blast the body of the guard, known as Anten, lay covered with a blue sheet with a roughly written name tag on one ankle, alongside two other Indonesian bodies at the Medical Center.

A spokesman for the Australian government, Lyndall Sachs, said that no Australians were seriously hurt.

At a news conference in Melbourne where he was campaigning for his re-election in the national election, on Oct. 9, Prime Minister John Howard said, "This is not a nation that is going to be intimidated by acts of terror."

Mr. Howard, a conservative, has stood by President Bush in the campaign against terror.

In Australia tonight comparisons were being made with the bombing in Madrid in March immediately before the election; the party of Prime Minister José María Aznar, another staunch supporter of Mr. Bush, was defeated.

The United States heightened its travel warning about Indonesia on Wednesday, cautioning visitors to cancel all non-essential travel and warning Americans here to be especially vigilant.

The new warning was based on information from the American Embassy in Jakarta. The embassy told American residents in a warden's message last Friday to avoid "Western-oriented hotels in the capital." That Friday alert came after the embassy received "information about possible attacks," a senior American official said.

At a news conference at the bomb site, General Bachtiar said that the police department was aware that a bomb attack was possibly in the making. "From our investigations and questioning we know that they are still able to recruit people who are willing to commit suicide," he said.

The Indonesian president, Megawati Sukarnoputri, cut short a trip to Brunei, and visited some of the victims in the hospital. She faces a re-election bid against a former cabinet minister, Bambang Susilo Yudhoyono, on Sept. 20.

Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:19 am by Fear Factor

Was just going to post about it. 8 confirmed dead, over 160 wounded; all Indonesians - I don't get how we're fighting the evil kafir westerners by killing fellow countrymen (and Muslims), at that?? can someone explain that?

Anybody got a spare nuke out there? go ahead, do us. WE DESERVE IT.

Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:09 am by Tawakalna

I've no doubt it can be explained, but whether the answer is true or not is another matter.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/9/2004 11:40:26 AM

Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:48 am by Indy11

Synarchy..... you mean Chaitkin?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:08 am by Tawakalna

I can't answer your question in any way without breaking forum rules.

I don't even think i should get into this discussion at all, for the same reason.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/9/2004 2:52:40 PM

Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:13 am by ~Corsair#01~

Aye, heard about it a couple of hours ago. Those terrorists are either more evil than I thought or simply incompetent.

Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:24 pm by ???VivaHispa?a16!!!

Just out of currisoity, how effective is terrorism? Aside from a few isolated incidents (Israel, Algeria) it's not that effective, and more often than not just leads to death. What do these independence movements hope to accomplish by killing their fellow countrymen and women? --- VH16

I am Nobody; Nobody is Perfect; Therefore, I am Perfect

Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:36 pm by Indy11

Serves at least two purposes in addition to the stated political cause:

1) Focuses the intense anger the frustration (legitimate or not) felt by the
the rank and file who do it and channels it into a means of expression that is as destructive as they are able to manage on limited means and resources and underscores the power and influence of the leaders who are able to talk their
cadre into committing suicide attacks.

2) Threatens and foments unease among the "enemy" ranks, of course, but also works to cow their own countrymen who otherwise might voice their disapproval of their cause and their own actions and might consider doing something about them otherwise.

But also, and this is the tricky one, those whom are labelled as terrorists are not necessarily seen as terrorists by everyone. To some (or many as the case may be) they may be seen as the next generation of guerilla freedom fighters.

Modern day politics very much has taken the concept of war and redirected it away from the battlefield in right into the laps of the civilian populations concerned.

Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:54 pm by -------

They want to inflict horror, and terrorize people, and create havoc, hence the name "terrorist." A lot of these terrorist cells are doing it either for extreme religious purposes or just to be a complete pain in the ass, or political reasons. Al Quaida, Hamas; they're all the same to me. Cannon fodder. They don't care if they live or die, so long as they scare people, they're content to keep on killing. These groups hold allegiances with NO ONE, not even each other. The worst part about these terrorists, is that they look like everybody else. Which I think is what makes them dangerous. Unfortunately, you can't round these people up without nabbing innocent people in the process because you can't tell the difference between who is a terrorist and who is not. It just doesn't work. Just because someone LOOKS like a terrorist, doesn't mean that he is. You have to look deeper than that. So, where do we draw the line on how to detect terrorists? Do we just grab someone who physically fits the terrorist profile? Do we nab them because they happen to have a low opinion of certain governments? Where is the line? We can't just book someone because they LOOK like a terrorist. In the states, if said person was a citizen, that would be a violation of their 4th Amendment rights, which is the freedom from unlawful Search and Seizure. Again, if said person was a citizen in the U.S was detained because he had a VERY low opinion of our government, that would be violating his 1ST Amendment rights. So where do we draw the line? I honestly don't think there is an answer for this. Because we just don't know.

Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:39 am by zazie

Could a Moderator/Administrator please explain to us why this thread is not locked (yet) ?
Why this question ?
I really appreciate how Indy is posting news in this forums and I like to read the ongoing discussions. So I don't criticize him.
But as soon as we are going into the topic of "terrorism" and possible explanations, we will end in a political bashing and flaming.
Of course we could discuss on a strictly historical base. But even discussions on the famous Swiss National Hero Wilhelm Tell (William Tell) will be controversial. He killed (if the tale is true) a representant of ruling Habsburg administration. Nowadays he is respected as a symbol for freedom, from another point of view he must be considered as a terrorist.

Don't take me wrong: I am not having ANY sympathy for terrorist actions. But some western people have the tendency to ignore the facts why certain persons or groups tend to use physical or military power to fight against an oppressor.

Personnally I am a pacifist that's why I am against .... (fill in - and - YES YOU GOT IT - that's why such a thread must end in political quarrel)

EDIT:
During the time I needed to write this post (about 10 min) two other posts were deleted and one was edited. I would not have written the same if I'd knewn before

I don't care a beep beep about my rank

Edited by - zazie on 9/10/2004 5:44:48 AM

Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:12 am by Tawakalna

a true story..

when I went to America earler this year, one afternoon we caught a taxi back to our hotel which took us past the WTC site (which we'd already been to) As we drove past, the driver, who just happened to be of S. Asian/M. Eastern ethnic extraction (in NYC? heavens above, whatever next?) turned to us and said,

"where you from mate?"
England (i replied)
"England? hate Blair and f*kin Bush, me. Osama, he fight for his people, for his land, for Islam. f'kin America stinks, stinking kufr society. from Afghanistan me"
<pause for disbelief>
err - you know where you are, don't you?
"yeh mate New York, why?
you can't say sh*t like that here esp right next to the WTC! D'you want to get yourself arrested and packed off to Guantanamo, you f'kin moron?
Al-Quaeda, martyrs for islam mate!)
ffs will you shut up? why the hell are you here if it's so bad?
"make money mate, send back to family in Afghanistan"
oh so you're q happy to take American money and to live here while slagging it off at the same time? *t*sser*

he didn't get a tip, and we got out of his cab and walked the rest of the way.

now as many of you know, I am enormously sympathetic towards Islam and the Arab culture and no supporter of the policies of our respective govts, but I wasn't prepared to put up with that kind of sh*t right next to where 3500 were murdered. i seriously considered turning him into the authorities, but Mrs Taw wanted to go shopping.

Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:27 am by Recusant

I have a second uncle who now lives in Florida. He owns a petrol station out there and after 9/11 he started to make a killing.
It seemed the general public had decided they would rather go to the one petrol station in the area run by a white guy (despite the fact that he's a foreigner)rather than go to one of those "brown-skinned" people who may or may not have links to terrorism. I know it's not fair and it's a knee-jurk reaction but it does reflect some of the general opinions that terrorism has created.

Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:24 am by Indy11

@Taw,

We've got a lot of those types here. Ingrates. They have only taken lessons from what is permitted in our society that works to their personal advantage and refuse to accept that other benefits attach to which they disavow any gratitude or benefit. And their attitudes are such that it blinds them to some of the more obvious reasons why the rest of us resent their presence here. They chalk that off to American racism and bigotry.

People do wonder here why our immigration policies are not even more strict but, in fact, they already are. It is just that those who have a less than honest purpose for coming here usually are the more cunning and capable of fraudulently gaining admission to this country. I am sure that your cabbie was able to convince our bureaucracy that he needed to come here for political reasons and gained entry that way.

He probably rationalizes that it is his personal way of getting even. Take our money and send it home. There are many like that. They resent having to come to our country to better themselves because we also, seemingly, are put up as the reason for their own country's miserable conditions. But come here they do, gain the benefit of our legal protections and assert them even more aggressively than the natives.

Tomorrow marks the third anniversary. So I took today off. The weather has cleared remarkably as we are between the after effects of Hurricane Frances and Hurricane Ivan.... if he veers north as predicted. It is almost the kind of perfect weather we had back in 2001.

Edited by - Indy11 on 9/10/2004 8:26:17 AM

Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:24 am by ~Corsair#01~

And there was me thinking it was America that put the Taliban in power and then bombed the country into oblivion before spending about 1% as much money in rebuilding it...ah well, must be mistaken.
I'm sure they had nothing whatsoever to do with the present situation in Afghanistan.

Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:35 am by Tawakalna

now now Corsair, let's have none of that in public, no matter what we might think or know. gets *clickyd* and p*sses people off. you know the rules in TLR. look at the fine line I and others have to walk.

Ed, we have them here too, so-called asylum seekers & refugees. they mouth off about the West and call "us" every name under the sun, but are q happy to drive their cabs, run their kebab shops, sell their market stall junk and all the other "traditional" economic activities. You'll note that hardly any of the money goes back to their families in wherever. if they had any bravery or principles they'd go back and fight for their cause, but they're too busy lining their own pockets. All mouth.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 9/10/2004 9:39:31 AM

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