wow... is This thread smoking or what??

Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:12 pm by Locutov

hmmmmm, sorry to bug everyone with a thread by my hand, but I am particularly bugged and buggered by the position of certain people (I shall not call any names, you can find the names that belongs to the quotes yourselves, if you please) here is one:

My eldest brother smokes. I wish I could get him to stop, as I think that with all of the drinking that he does, he's going to head to an early grave.

now I don't want to place this quote out of context (if this is indeed the context the writer meant), but has it ever been proven as such, that a smoker is heading for an early grave when he smokes?? let me tell you, and you can discuss this one after I am done, No. It has never been proven that smoking IS the cause of a premature death, first thing we have to understand is what premature is, I would be saying, 50 is a premature death, 60 also by these days, but 70-75?? it is not, I say the category of 70-75 is anything but a premature death (all of my respects to those that have lost relatives in the past) and yet, it is proven as a fact, that 90% of the people, maybe a tad less, but certainly no less then 85% die in that age category, stating that thirty percent on average smokes 15 or more ciggarettes a day.

To go on, it was never exactly proven that Lung-Cancer is caused exclusively by smoking, it sure is a decent riskk you take, but when you smoke, it doesn't mean that you WILL get lungcancer when you smoke, heck if that were true, smoing would be outlawed, because it is deemed as a healthrisk that would certainly kill 30% of world population, without a doubt that is.

OK, I leave this topic open to discussion now, make a clean discussion, and please, if you feel the need to flame, go and sit in a corner until that need is gone, Mods, if this Topic goes awry with the slightest touch, would you please be so kind to lock it (touchy subject)

also my respects to those that have successfully quit smoking, and my sympathies to those that have lost family due to a smoking-RELATED illness.

__________________________________________________________
Oh, dear, How sad, Never mind!!-Battery Sergeant Major Williams

Here's one for ya-
So a guy walks in the streets of London, as he walks, he walks into another man. The other Guy says: "Do you see any police around here??" Well no says the First, so the other Guy says: "Well then, Stick 'em up!!"-Tommy Cooper

Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:47 pm by Stinger

U smoker.

You make a good point actually. I read somewhere that the body gets cancer every day...but the human immune system is so good it just fights it off with ease. Wish I could find that article again.

Rob "Stinger" Lordier
Creator of the original Privateer FAQ
3+ years here and still lovin' every minute!

Favorite saying - Life is a journey, not a destination

Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:59 pm by Chips

Cancer is just a mutation of cells. Thats all.

Cancer may be "developed" every day, due to the millions of cells that die on your body, every single NEW cell made has the possiblity to be mutated, and pass on that mutation as well. However, the immune system may get rid of that cell, or the mutation may not be bad.

Smoking HAS been linked to mutagenic properties - causing mutations. In particular, the chemicals contained within the smoke are carcinogenic - this means that the mutations they cause can turn into cancerous (as far as i have understood this.....i haven't looked deeply into it).

So when they say it causes cancer, what they mean is that the chemicals inside the smoke will cause cell damage, and can cause mutations. Those mutations can propogate into cancer.

So saying smoking causes cancer is kinda true, from a certain point of view. It causes mutations in cells, as it DOES damage them, and this can lead to cancer. Its kinda like having unprotected sex with a HIV positive person. It doesn't mean you WILL get HIV at all, infact, there is a 30% chance i think it is of infection - BUT its possible.

Reason its not outlawed, thats simple - money. I mean, if you really want to talk about stuff like that, then all cars/lorries/buses would be illegal, as our roads kill even more people each year.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:25 pm by Balthazar Furious

Yeah, Chips is right. I'd just like to add on to what he said. Also when those mutagens get into your body, the effect is cumulative, so in other words, small doses over a long period of time is just as bad as one large dose. And what with tobacco tars containing at least 17 known carcinogens, it's pretty bad for you, as well as for people who have to be near people who are smoking. How it basically works is this:

There are two types of gene that are normally involved in controlling the cell cycle, proto-oncogenes start the cell process, and the other is the tumour-supressor gene, which switches off cell division. Normally they both work as a team, repairing defective cells and replacing dead ones. Mutations can screw this up. If a proto-oncogene mutates it can give rise to oncogenes, which lead to uncontrollable cell division. If the tumour-supressor gene is mutated, it will most likely lead to cancer. The resulting cancer no longer functions as it should, and instead becomes immortal. Growing constantly and draining nutrients from the body. As long as it recieves nutrients, it will continue to live and grow.

Friends are just people who have used each other so often it has become habitual.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:17 pm by H.Q. Victor

Smoking has greater health problems than just Cancer. Cancer is an end result. The smoker has breathing issues, to test theroy, run a 440. They have vitamen defenciancys. It effect the heart rate. It poisons you with tiny doses of Carbon Monoxide. And it is now being proven, at least with US cigs, that other, Proven Harmfull chemicals are in Cigaretes. By the evidence in my grandmother, smoking cost her, her eye sight. She smoked 3 packs a day most of her life. After she quit, a month or more, her sence of taste exploded and she began to notice tastes and smells more than she had before. And let us not forget the most discusting effect of smoking, the tar intake. The best filters don't stop it all. Stopping will save you the cost, $3.00 a pack x2 a day x365 days = $2190.00 for just the pruduct.

People will always smoke, for what ever the reasons they choose to employ. There is no True heathful reason to ever start the habit.

Edited by - Finalday on 8/13/2004 4:37:13 PM

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:48 pm by Chips

@Finalday - in blighty the governments use Ciggies as a vital revenue source, so it costs around 4.80 a pack - not dollars, pounds. Thats around $8.90 a pack or maybe just tippin $9 a pack.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:00 pm by H.Q. Victor

The cost I used was a generic. The cost here is going up hier due to a tax increase on the cigs. Low end versions are $4.47 , cartons are $44.70 high ends around $5.54.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:07 pm by Codename

One thing that smoking does cause, without a doubt, is emphysema. Emphysema, for those who don't know, is a condition where you get great big holes forming in your lungs that prevent the effective transfer of oxygen and carbon dioxide within the lungs. Also smoking has been linked to heart disease. So, ultimately, smoking is far riskier that you've made it sound.

As far as the question about why it isn't outlawed, Chips hit the nail on the head there. As long as the government can make an easy buck or two or 5 million off of peoples' stupidity and suceptibility to outside influences they will do so. It just makes one wonder why more governments don't do the same thing with marijuana.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:13 pm by Indy11

In NYC, the cost of a pack is only a little less than your price, Chips.

Smoking tobacco includes not only lung cancer risks, but emphysema (as Code says) and various cardiovascular risks. But what made me quit was because my mother got cancer. We lost her to it but not before she made me promise to quit and keep that promise.

Tobacco is not outlawed for the same reason that alcohol is not outlawed. Both of these drugs had become an integral part of society in Western cultures, long before we became aware of the addictive nature of those drugs or more educated in the diseases that these drugs can promote when consumed or abused.

If you smoke tobacco, the point is that you should be aware that you are taking a health risk, one that is not a mere hypothetical speculation but one which in terms of large statistical analysis can be shown to cause health deficits that will shorten life expectancy in too significant a number of the population.

If this means dying at age 65 instead of 75, perhaps some would not find this to be such a problem for them. Personally, if I can live healthily to 90, I'd like to give that try.

Edited by - Indy11 on 8/13/2004 5:14:42 PM

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:16 pm by -------

My grandpa has emphysema. I don't know how long he's been smoking, but he quit about 7-8 years ago because he was diagnosed with emphysema. He was put on oxygen about two and a half years ago, because the emphysema got worse, even though he quit smoking. So, smoking does cause permanent damage, even though it may not seem like much, but later in life, if you still smoke, it'll bite you in the ass. Hard. The best way to quit, as we all well know, is to never start. I don't touch those cancer-sticks, because of all the s**t they put into them. Tobacco, ammonia, formaldahyde(spelling?) and a whole bunch of other stuff, there's too much to list.

"Guns don't kill people....I DO!!"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:01 pm by RILMS

When ever they tell you that something is bad for you, they are really saying there is a bigger chance of getting X if you do that.

As for life expentanc, I've been watching too much Dead Like Me and have desided that we all die when we're ment to, no matter what.

Life: No one gets out alive.

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:48 pm by kimk

age old debate about smoking huh ?

i'll agree smoking doesn't directly cause premature death to everyone that smokes it to a significant dosage.

its the diseases that smoking causes that *may* lead to premature death. i've heard of some people living well into 90's and still smoke.

im not gonna type long cause brain is still sleeping.

but we all do know those ciggys do contain toxic chemicals. the filters are there to filter them out, but they are never perfect. as stated earlier, tar, carbon monoxide and all teh other bad stuff get into you, first step is your windpipe, then your lungs. them bad stuff do bad stuff to you and in turn, has a chance of causing diseases. if your general lifestyle is healthy enough to keep a tough immune system, then you may be able to fight off whatever diseases smoking introduces.

oh and, smoking makes your teeth go yellow

come to think of it, smoking also has dental effects. yeah. the smoke gets to your mouth first..

but i think a bigger issue is secondary smoke. they're more toxic, and affect those that never wanted to smoke worse than the primary smoker. im glad i dont have asthma or something, after how much my dad smokes.

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:39 am by Esquilax

Regarding the quote in Loc's above post, I posted that, and I stand by it. Firstly, I never even mentioned the word "cancer", and you are drawing one hell of a conclusion from my one line statement. In fact, I take umbrage at your remarks because they are attempting to place words in my mouth.

My post is quite plain; I am worried about the amount of smoking and drinking that my brother does. I never suggested that they would kill him directly. In fact, if you want to know, I feel that they could instead contribute to his "natural" deterioration (ie. the conditions that occur due to advancing age).

To me, your post sounds quite defensive Loc. Perhaps you are unconciously worried about your own health in some way. See? I can pull unsubstantiated supposition out of the air too.

Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:33 am by Fear Factor

Whoa, everybody calm down. Now the both of you are getting defensive - no need to get harsh!

Now, I don't smoke and will never do, but everybody makes choices. I do drive(risking of getting into accident) and play video games (risking developing psycho mentality and become a homicidal maniac someday

), etc. and I don't like to be constantly reminded of every risk of everything that I do. Smoke away if you want to, just do it away from non-smokers, especially kids. Smoking is your native american-given right, but so is fresh air. Non-smokers SHOULD tone down their judgmental attitude, IMHO.

Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:00 am by Chips

Howdy FF, good to see ya around here

By the way, there be a thread about TLR history in Freelancer Discussion...needs someone of your "seniority" in members years to really answer

....oh - i hijacked a thread for a post there! Damn me and my bad habits!

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