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Is it treason

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:10 am

Is it treason

I read an interesting thing in a book this afternoon. There was this nuclear guy(dont know how to spell the correct word) anyway he was a genius with nuclear stuff, but he sold what he found out to countries other than his own. They say its treason, he says its not because its his stuff, he can do with it what he want to.

This was in a fiction book btw. But ok you answer the question, is it treason or not treason to sell your knowledge to other countries?

Note pls DO NOT turn this into a political discussion

In space no-one can hear you scream.
It is only you and the never-ending abyss of death

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:14 am

Depends on a lot of things if you want to be detailed in the analysis.
1) Who paid for his education?
2) Who paid for his research?
3) Why was he doing this type of research?
4) In this fictional world, how important was nuclear research and did he
have to have government clearance to deal with nuclear materials and equipment?

If everything he did was out of his own pocket AND if he did not have to have
government permission to do his work, it probably isn't "treason." However, if by selling his research to others, he placed the security of his own country at a disadvantage to those other countries, then he is acting in a treasonous way - that is, he is betraying the trust that his own nation places in him and in every other citizen ... that they would protect the interests of their own nation first, if not their own government.

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:18 am

OK, but lets think wider than just nuclear, that was just an example

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:20 am

His loyalty must always be to his country. The other contries may not be hostile, but they may be freinds/neutral with hostile countries thereby giving them something to use against you. That said, Yes, it is treason.
If it was a medical breakthrough, it would be humanitarian to share the knowledge.

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:21 am

depends on the circumstances. if the character you're referring to is Mordecai Vanunu, then I'd say yes - Israel having a secret nuclear capability would have undermined all peace-making efforts in the Middle-East. Having that arsenal revealed to the world meant that it was much harder for the Israelis to use nuclear blackmail against their neighbours.

in normal circumstances, i.e. selling WMD secrets for money/sex/drugs/fame etc the answer is no. when its a case of preserving the balance of power, preventing one side from getting too big an advantage against the other, or to save millions from potential destruction, then probably yes.

slightly to continue on the subject of the Israelis; it works the other way too. Israel q rightly destroyed Saddam's nuclear facilities back in 1980 I think. they were soundly condemned at the time, no-one believed Iraq had a nuclear weapons programme and most countries accepted the Iraqi argument that it was a civilian research and power establishment. Funny that, seeing as it had been secretly built by the French and its existence hadnt been declared to the IAEC by either the Frech or the Iraqis. So the Israeli's prompt action on their intelligence from iraqi defectors and Israeli agents in iraq did everyone a favour, because Iraq would have definitely had a nuclear weapon by GW1, not just nearly had one.

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 am

Very true indeed. Kuwait might have been made into an ashtray.

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:38 am

would it have been a glass ashtray? cause the heat would have fused the sand

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:51 am



<Edit>

Back O.T

Not all betrayals are treasonous although most are.

Edited by - Indy11 on 7/23/2004 12:56:49 PM

Post Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:56 pm

no, it's his own knowledge, he can do with it what he pleases.

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:50 am

Treason in the U.S. is defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy, so it depends on if the country that the scientist sold the secrets to is the enemy of the scientist's native land. Technically speaking of course. Nuclear secrets are not sold lightly though.

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:55 am

imo it really does depend on what he's doing with than knowledge. A good example of this is from Freelancer where von clausen has to betray rhienland in order to save it. Some ppl could class this as treason but i wouldn't as he was doing this to save his country. It really all depends on the motives of the person when it comes down to it

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:16 am

If the country was his own country's enemy, yes, it is *technically* treason.
Otherwise ..... no, not really.

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:16 am

motives, yes; but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, is it not?

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:20 am

Hmm
well I guess this coulb be looked at in may different ways.
In a way it is treason, but on the other hand, I say a goverment cant say what goes on in my head belongs to them, its mine and I can do with it what I want(which is letting it rot at this stage)

Post Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:30 am

and oddly enough they in turn can do what they want to you - which will usually mean a longish spell in gaol.

von Clausen is not a good example - he's fictional, rather one-dimensional, and his circumstances are exceptional to say the least. In the real world, spying and selling secrets is a dirty, underhand shady business carried out by thoroughly loathsome and dodgy people. Ever met any intelligence types? I have; they're usually weasly rats and/or ruthless bastards who you wouldn't trust as far as you could throw them. I did a bit of work for them in NI when I was stationed there. Want to know about real spying? When we went out for a drink, we were told to keep an eye and ear on anyone and everyone, especially if they took an obvious interest in you. Like it depicts in the "Crying Game," we were warned not to get involved with local girls as we had no way of knowing if they were Fenians or not which was a shame cos there were some lovely red-haired Irish girls. We had informers, local people who got paid for dishing the dirt on what the Provos were up to. And that's what most "intelligence" work is all about; bribery and blackmail. Makes you feel q unclean.

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