I'm sorry dude, but I find it hard to sympathise with you. There are 2 sides to every story and I'm siding with your neighbours without even hearing their side. There's a definite difference between having a one off party "one year" and having regular noise barraging you from all sides.

The only piece of advice I can give you is to make up with your neighbours, be the bigger man, suggest that you will inform each other in future when you are having late night parties. If the arguments continue and you are sticking to your side of the bargain - then you have grounds to officially complain to the council. But I think you'll find that if you just talk about it, things will get quickly sorted.

I sympathise with them because one of the guys on my street has 2 dogs, that he constantly neglects and they bark until the cows come home. Its extremely f***ing irritating. Dog owners don't seem to realise this. Also, I've spent a lot of time around animals, and I've learnt that dogs only tend to bark when they either a) sense danger, b) are not being looked after properly or c) are spoilt to death so they think their "master" will respond to their wishes if they bark. This is of course, only my opinion, but if you're going to own a dog then you should consider how everyone else will feel about it when it starts barking.

And...

---

They feel very hard done by because the husband has a heart problem, the wife had a car accident and the son had leukemia at one point.

---

I'm sorry, but have you been through these problems??? I think they have every reason to "feel hard done by".

I know this wasn't the response that you were hoping for...if you would prefer, I'll delete all of the above and simply put "aaawww, there there there"....but I'm just being honest.



Edited by - gromit on 6/24/2004 4:34:50 AM

Fair enough Grom, your not here and you don't know the exact nature of things.
The dogs are both quite long haired so at this time of year especially they spend a lot of time dozing in the shade. They are both very obedient and really only bark at intruders, they're not thick yappy dogs or anything like that. There genuinely was someone messing around by the fence at the back of my garden around midnight. I stood by my window listening out for what was winding up the dogs. There was a load of crashing in the undergrowth and it made its way along the woods quite quickly like someone trying to run away after hearing the dogs. My suspicions were confirmed when there was a louder thud and a shout which was probably the silly bugger tripping over in the darkness. The dogs are far from spoilt, they get fed once a day and are "outside" dogs. It's only strangers and intruders that make them bark.

The party thing was just an example, my family really don't party at all, nor do the neighbours hold them very often either so it's not worth getting annoyed about. It was just incredibly hippocritical to start bellowing at some kids playing a game in the garden having had a loud party till late not that long before.

As for the health problems, I've lived my life alongside a car crash victim far worse than anything she sustained. She doesn't go in for surgery several times a year, she didn't need to build up the muscles round her neck to help further stabilise the spine. She doesn't need to go out the back of her garden each night to hang from a tree to stretch her back back into position. Her fingers don't dislocate at random. I could go on and on...
Equally, my old boss who I'm quite close to, has heart problems, his daughter also has them and had to undergo a caesarean rather than go through full blown labour due to the risk to her heart. Her husband died suddenly in his sleep about 9 months after the baby was born. Now my boss, a newsagent, has to help support his daughter and only grandchild. He doesn't act vindictively towards anyone, he gets on with life.
What I'm trying to say is that, no matter how much life may suck for you, it doesn't give you a right to make life worse for everyone else.

Find any other neighbors who can back you up on verification that they bark very little. A witness goes a long ways on defence.

I don't know Grom, I've been a dog owner for 20 odd years and on my third dog. Our first two we're very quiet, hardly ever heard a peep out of them. However our current dog is a bit of a barker and although we have managed to keep his barking to a minimum he does go ballistic from time to time. Unfortunately he's as thick as pig sh*t and it takes him a long time to respond to training. Now we're extremely conciencious owners and take exceptional care of our dogs but someimes it's hard to get the message through to them, even with the very best and sternest of training. You can just tell when the message isn't sinking in.

Now we are a bit out of the ordinary with animals, whereby we do really have them as part of the family. They go almost everywhere with us, or at the very least have someone looking after them if we are gone for any length. So the dog would never be too much of a distraction if he did start barking. However I do understand that some people like to keep animals but necessarily get all that close to them and never let them inside the house. Other than that the dog is taken care of. So in point if this type of owner did happen to bring home a barker it would cause great angst with the neighbours. Not that the neighbour is necessarily doing anything wrong with the dog, the dog just likes to bark at anything and at great length.

I'm not sure if I made a point there but I wasn't going to write all that and not post it was I? eh?

fair enough mustang, point taken. What I was trying to get at is that if you own a dog, and especially if its a barker, you should be aware how much that dog will wind up the people around you who have not made the conscious decision to go and buy that dog. I'm not saying you should ask the permission of people around you if you are going to buy a potentially loud pet, but you should respect that they don't necessarily want to hear it when you do bring it home. You certainly can't have a go at them for complaining about it, because in the end, they bought a house (which always costs a hell of a lot of money and is one of the most personally important things that people do in western culture) and you are disturbing them.

All of the above, when I say "you", I am not singling out you mustang nor recusant, I am trying to make a point not purposefully trying to offend.

@rec I'm sorry to hear the problems that your friends and family have gone through....I truly am sorry....but you missed my point entirely. My point isn't that you or your neighbour have experienced these problems....my point is that for you to relate the problems your neighbour has had (especially the child) with this pointless bickering thats going on between you both, is not only widely irrelevant to the situation, but also belittles your neighbours problems, which is hugely offensive. Its like me having a go at you for dropping litter and then when you argue back, me saying "woah! hold on there a minute, you're just p*ssed off because your friend was in a car crash!". Offensive don't you think?

I need to reiterate my advice to you. These things elevate because both sides go off and b*tch about each other behind their backs - this post is a prime example of how you're reacting to it. Instead, you really need to be the bigger man and try to open a channel of communication between the two houses. If you do this, 99% of the time things can be sorted out before they go too far. If you fall into the other 1%, then at least you know that YOU tried. But until then, b*tching behind each others backs is only going to escalate the situation in both of your minds and you will end up in an unbearable situation.

I know this, because I have been there. I was the loud one that took the complaints badly. It escalated and both houses almost ended up in full blown warfare. So the next time it happened to me, I was the complainer, but this time instead of going in all-guns-blazing, I tried to communicate with the house....and it worked.

Or of course, you could just chuck a brick through their window, whichever you feel to be more appropriate


Edited by - gromit on 6/24/2004 6:29:29 AM

Grom, we've never had a problem with them. They seem to have a problem with us. This is the second time they've pulled in the council, and just like last time, the council workers will see there is no real cause for complaint.
They can be really nasty pieces of work. The wife came over here not too long ago and started complaining about her other neighbour for being "a bit thick". We just grit our teeth and put up with it. I wouldn't even be that annoyed if they'd been nice enough to come over and tell us that the dogs had woken them or annoyed them, instead we suddenly get an official letter from the council. We're generally quite nice to them, I always say "hi" when I see them. We recently gave their son one of those real nice NBA basketballs seeing as he'd started to get into the sport and I didn't play it anymore. My Dad used to carry a big box of paper home from work for us kids to draw on etc. When he heard that the daughter was really into drawing he offered to get them a box which at first they were thankful for. But when he turned up with the box and rung the doorbell, the wife came to the door, said "Can't you see I'm on the phone!?" and just took the box and shut the door!
It was probably a bit ridiculous bringing up their problems but it seems that they think it's an excuse to treat everyone else like crap. I feel sorry for the son especially because he's actually a genuinely nice guy, but you can't expect people to treat them like they're particularly special, not only would it be really demeaning but there are plenty of people out there with problems who get on with things. That car crash victim "friend" of mine is in actual fact my Dad! But anyway, this isn't some sort of misfortune pissing contest.
Another example: a little while ago she forced her neighbour to go into her garden and prune every little twig that poked through the small chain link fence between them. It's not just us they don't like and they can be incredibly petty

man if there are this many problems with everybody and them, maybe you should be talking to the rest of your neighbours and trying to come up with a plan.

sorry to hear about your dad by the way....but I'm glad you recognise there's no point turning it into a pissing contest...there's always someone who's worse off than you.

you should talk to them. try get on good terms, you've tried, plenty, but try more if you don't want to move. set up a barbecue and invite them. if they're on the phone then write a note and stick it under the door. go out of your way as far as necessary to get on friendlier terms.. they'll comply.

when you guys are 60 sit down on the porch and tell them off.

It sounds as if this complainer is the one needing to be complained of by the rest on your block. How about taking up a counter petition? Also, a complaint about the party(is?) they threw(throw) also should be made. Whenever you get government bureacracies involved, the paper trail becomes critical. If you had lodged a complaint against the neighbor for that loud party, it would help offset his against you for your party, etc.

How about doing an a canvass of your neighborhood about your dogs? Make it a door-to-door poll and see what they have to say?

<Edit>

In the US edition of Economist magazine a while back, I read an article in the UK section in which there were recent studies that indicated that most Britons did not complain enough or assert their rights openly enough.... thus leading to many unhappy and dissatisfied customers/citizens and with British service providers being clueless about the "shoddy" state of the service they provide. I don't know how true it is but it is possible that the other neighbors on your block have been holding back and maybe you need to get a better feel for what's going on in their minds?

Edited by - Indy11 on 6/24/2004 7:22:20 AM

you haven't q grasped it, Ed. we don't complain because it's rude, and going to the council about your neighbours is one of the worst things you can do in a local community because it creates so much bad feeling, unless your neighbours are total apes and deserve to get kicked out back to the dross council estate they came from. rating on your neighbours is sneaky and underhand, nothing that can't be sorted out with a word in the old shell-like.

We have some weird ones a couple of doors up, def not normal. Mrs Taw took a cake and a present for their baby round when they moved in, they wouldn't even let her past the gate! then they built a 20fot fence round their house and garden so no-one could see in. they don't even unpack the shopping on the street, they drive into their garage and close the door. What are they hiding? weirdos. All our other neighbours are, thankfully, relatively normal, but the couple who live next door to the weirdos have even had the mad witch complaining that their wind-chimes are disturbing her; she went to the council with that one, can you imagine? wind-chimes. She had a go at me about our cat walking through her garden, i just laughed at her and called her a psycho.

what i'd do is get the council letter, go round, say "i believe this is YOUR reponsibility.." the when they start flapping, ask them exactly what action they'd like you to take; permanently muzzle the dog so he cant bark, or eat, or drink, or just to have him put down, in which case will they pay for the injection? You'll see a rapid change of stance, believe me. Sarcastic confrontation works every time.

Good plan, Taw. If you can find a way to get along it's always best.

There's a house down the street from me that's a party house. They have a non-functional car, a weight bench, and mattresses on the front lawn (I call it a lawn, but there's no grass). People are showing up at 1 in the morning playing loud crappy music in their cars. I had to call the cops on them once because they were having fights in the street. In three years I think the cops have been there at least five times. One of the guys got out of jail and the cops came and picked him up for something else later that day. I never worried about them breaking into my house because if anyone in the neighborhood got robbed the cops would go to their house first.

If you can't reason with the "evil neighbors", this is what you do. Do you have their phone number? Make some fake 'for sale' pages, you know, where you cut the bottom of the page into little strips and write your phone number on each one so people can rip them off. Say that "you"(use your neighbor's name) want to sell something really good and cheap, and then put that you're a day sleeper so they should call at midnight when you get home from work. Say you want to unload a PS2 or DVD player really cheap. Put a copy of the paper in bus stops or ATMs or wherever.

I once heard of a guy who had a noisy dog, so he got one of those shock collars with a remote control. He wakes up at three in the morning because the dog's freaking out. He doesn't know why the crazy mutt is turning cartwheels out there until he realizes that while he was asleep he rolled over onto the remote control.

Let's get those missiles ready to destroy the universe!!

my firm sells those electric shock dog collars, i think they're great! I wanted to get one for our stupid dog just so i could torment him with it, but Mrs Taw wouldn't let me

@upnaught

---

There's a house down the street from me that's a party house. They have a non-functional car, a weight bench, and mattresses on the front lawn (I call it a lawn, but there's no grass). People are showing up at 1 in the morning playing loud crappy music in their cars.

---

Can I get that address please? I could do with finding myself a new dealer

lol. no seriously, thats a great image. I think it was the weight bench that I loved the most...do you get scary looking tattooed blokes in white vests, with hair nets, bench pressing to Snoop Dogg? Please say ya do I've got this whole "2 fast 2 furious" image in my mind I don't want ya to wreck

Nightmare neighbours?

We used to keep Chickens, Ducks and Horses....

A new neighbour moved in (started off nice), but in the end it all went horrifically wrong, cause this guy had massive issues, left things to fester, and really had a minority complex. Needless to say apart from building ONTO our land, and blocking off the legal access to our land - he ended up in court. End result was he had to take down the fence, and remove the concrete curb - costing him a STACK load of cash.

Next - in came the council due to "excessive noise" of chickens (cockrel crowing at 5am anyone?) - but the man from the environment agency said they were fantastically healthy and well looked after, the noise man said "What did he expect when he moved into the country next door too two farms?" (we have land, it was a good 80 yards from where we kept the chickens to his house!).

After that, we had further issues with our tyres being punctured all the time, which was costing a fortune. After getting the fourth puncture, we took a large sea magnet (picks up 135lbs!!), and trawled the gravel of the access. We found over 2000 nails and tacks in there - so once more - off to court, where he had to pay, and was warned by the courts that it was his responsiblity to keep it clean and clear for us to drive over it.

He also took us to court over the "boundary", where he claimed he owned an extra 1 meter of our yard than he did. Doesn't sound much, but it just wasn't his land to take, and would have affected the value of our house.

We weren't totally innocent. His house was an old converted barn from our farmhouse - so it was built with very LITTLE foundations at all. Any heavy machinery used to cause his wall to vibrate a little. So we aggravated the problem by smashing up large parts of the concrete yard that used to be the pig huts flooring to make way for some lawn........apparently a few of his ornaments actually fell off and broke - but that really was about the extent of our wrong doing.

The guy left eventually, after trying to sell his house way overpriced for around 4 years. Once he was gone, a large portion of the village had a celebration - as no-one like the man. In total he cost us nothing, but his ego, self importance and stupidty cost him something like 9000 pounds in court costs and lawyers fees.... and around 6000 pounds in building work and stuff. The land that was our access he bought from the council, and was the whole starting problem. It cost him 5000 pounds for a piece of land that was around 4 meters by 4 meters!!!! Altogether it cost him a fortune, and since we never lost a single court battle, we didn't have to pay any costs whatsoever (including lawyer).

If he had just not been such a pillock, we could have got along fine - but he hated the fact that we had land and bigger house etc.......and thought his forceful ways, bs and ego coupled with our very nice and friendlyness could net him what he wanted(free land basically!)

It was funny, if it hadn't been so annoying!!