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Hippocratic Oath vs. Execution by Lethal Injection

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:43 am

Hippocratic Oath vs. Execution by Lethal Injection

Does a Physician violate his ethics if he participates in the execution of a
prisoner that has been sentenced to death by lethal injection[? Has he violated his hippocratic oath? Do Doctors take a hippocratic oath any more

Below is one spin on this question.

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:43 am

Should Doctors Help With Executions? No Easy Ethical Answer
By ADAM LIPTAK

Published: June 10, 2004


ATLANTA, June 7 - Dr. Sanjeeva Rao used to look after the inmates at the state prison in Jackson, Ga., treating their high blood pressure and more serious ailments. When the state started using lethal injections in 2000, he took on another task: helping to execute them.

Dr. Rao does not administer the injections, but he monitors the process, and occasionally, he has testified, he helps out. If the prisoner's heart monitor has not flatlined after the injections meant to kill him, Dr. Rao orders up more poison.

In 2001, after a nurse spent 39 fruitless minutes stabbing needles into Jose High, a former drug addict, in search of a sound vein, Dr. Rao put in a line through his neck that allowed the deadly chemicals to flow.

Whether promoting health or hastening death, Dr. Rao refers to the prisoners in medical terms.

"I always say 'a patient,' " he testified in a 2002 case filed by a death row inmate that unsuccessfully challenged lethal injections as inhumane. "That's by habit."

Doctors who participate in executions violate the most fundamental tenet of medical ethics, some critics say. But others defend these doctors, saying that lethal injections, the almost-universal form of execution in the United States, can be performed humanely only by medical professionals.

Dr. Sidney Wolfe, the director of health research for the consumer advocacy organization Public Citizen, said Dr. Rao and others like him should be disciplined. "The state medical boards should just yank the licenses of these people," Dr. Wolfe said.

Dr. Kenneth Baum, the author of a law review article on the question, disagreed, saying that doctors can play a valuable role at executions. The alternative, he said, is having prison employees with little training perform the procedures.

"In the absence of competent medical oversight," Dr. Baum said, "many of these executions are unnecessarily painful. There is no reason, given that we are going to execute these people, to leave them defenseless."

About 25 states allow or require doctors to be present at executions. But information on the number of doctors who participate in executions is hard to come by, as states generally refuse to name anyone who does so, citing security and privacy concerns. The Georgia Department of Corrections, for instance, says execution records are "privileged and confidential state secrets.''

Dr. Rao's name was disclosed in the 2002 lawsuit challenging Georgia's use of lethal injections. He did not respond to several messages left at his office and his home seeking comment.

Many of the states that encourage doctors to participate in executions have seemingly contradictory laws that allow doctors to be disciplined by state medical boards for violating codes of medical ethics. Those codes almost universally forbid participation in executions.

The American Medical Association's ethics code, for instance, says that "a physician, as a member of a profession dedicated to preserving life when there is hope of doing so, should not be a participant in a legally authorized execution."

The code forbids doctors to perform an array of acts at executions, including prescribing the drugs, supervising prison personnel, selecting intravenous sites, placing intravenous lines, administering the injections and pronouncing death.

"They're not allowed to determine that the execution has been unsuccessful so that the execution can be repeated," said Dr. Stephen H. Miles, a professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota and author of "The Hippocratic Oath and the Ethics of Medicine."

But a survey of doctors in 2001 found that more than 40 percent would be willing to perform at least one of the forbidden activities.

Scholars who have studied the matter said they knew of no state board action against a doctor for aiding in a lawful execution.

Dr. Arthur Zitrin, a retired professor of psychiatry at New York University and a former director of psychiatry at Bellevue Hospital, aims to change that.

"My major thrust," he said, "is to identify physicians who have participated in executions in one way or another, with the objective of charging these physicians with professional misconduct for violating medical ethics."

Dr. Zitrin tried to have Dr. Rao expelled from the American College of Physicians, an internists' organization. The effort failed when the group determined that Dr. Rao was behind in his dues and was thus no longer considered a member.

Dr. Zitrin said he and two Georgia lawyers, Michael Mears and Matthew Rubenstein, would file a complaint against Dr. Rao with the Georgia medical authorities this month. "I'm also on the trail of a doctor in Virginia, and one in Illinois," he said.

The question of whether doctors should participate in executions is more difficult now that lethal injections are the dominant mode of execution in the United States. Firing squads and electric chairs did not require doctors to help in quite the same way, medical experts say.

"What's unique about this procedure is that it's specially designed to imitate medical procedures," said Dr. Jonathan I. Groner, a surgery professor at Ohio State University and the trauma medical director of the Columbus Children's Hospital .

In a unanimous decision on May 24 allowing a death row inmate to challenge lethal injections as cruel and unusual punishment, the United States Supreme Court appeared to suggest that a doctor should be required for at least some procedures.

The inmate in that case, David L. Nelson, had badly damaged his veins by long-term drug use, and went to court to fight a plan by Alabama prison officials to make a two-inch incision in his arm or leg to allow his execution to proceed. "There was no assurance," Justice Sandra Day O'Connor wrote in the decision, "that a physician would perform or even be present for the procedure."

At least eight states, including Georgia, also seek to shield doctors from professional discipline through laws saying that aiding in executions is not the practice of medicine.

Dr. Baum, who supports letting doctors participate in executions, said such laws are dishonest.

"What about this is not the practice of medicine?" he asked. "It's inserting the I.V.; it's infusing medicine; it's monitoring vital signs; it's declaring death. These are practices that in any other setting are the practice of medicine."

Some of those opposed to allowing doctors to participate in executions concede that their real agenda is abolition of the death penalty.

"It is true that this is my small way to get at an abhorrent process," Dr. Wolfe of Public Citizen said.

Others say it is possible to oppose the death penalty and approve of doctors aiding in executions.

"The physician's role is to treat when you can and to comfort when that is all you can do," Dr. Baum said. "I wouldn't see any conflict in a physician who participates in executions being vocally anti-death-penalty. There's not a conflict in my mind, ethically, morally or politically."

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:47 am

Hmm interesting...I dontknow, it much the same as "Should doctors be able to administer lethal injections to patiens suffering and who has no chance of recovering"

Its a bit difficult for me having an opinion on this, mostly becus I can see the rightness of both sides of the argument

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Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:02 pm


Hippocratic Oath -- Modern Version

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.


Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.





Maybe this line is of use:

But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.



So I guess if a doctor gives a patient a lethal injection and is fully convinced that this person is guilty and is a threat to society he does not break his oath in my opinion.

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Edited by - Wizard on 6/11/2004 3:07:20 PM

Edited by - Wizard on 6/11/2004 3:08:06 PM

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:43 pm

Well said wizard.

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Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:18 pm

To me, there is a difference. A convicted person, is sentenced to die. We have had several methods, hanging, can take a bit due to suffocation, Gas Chamber, fear build up till death, Firing Squad, depends on accuracy, Electrocution debated for years, Lethal Injection effective, no pain, ect, but to be done properly would need a doctor. A Person with a degenerative disease though is suffering, chooses to end life, but a year later a cure is found. Or that person, though suffering, saves the life of a child, who later becomes president, or a scientist, or whatever. It is debatable, but hard on a doctor either way. To always try to save a life. I would not want to be in that position.

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:12 pm

It's a position NOBODY should have to be in. But it happens every day. Some decisions are right, others are wrong. You have to make your decision based on what other people should do, what's legal, and what YOU think is the best possible course to take. I'm glad I'm never in that kind of position. I don't think I could handle it.

"Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived."

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:36 pm

well as I read it, the Hippocratic oath boiles down to

To help anyone, anywhere, anyhow, to the best of my abilities, regardless of my patients Race, Political motivations or monetary implications
That is the core of the Hippocratic oath as to I think it isbut it could be different, but I think it boils down to that

Post Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:41 pm

I wouldn't have thought that we'd be able to discuss this. You know, for obvious reasons. Still, if this thread is still here tonight (or tomorrow), I'll post my two cents .

-----

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:20 am

firstly, I'm completely opposed to the death penalty myself, but I'm not getting into that argument, it's just to state where I stand.

the condemned individuals right to life has been taken away by (presumably) legitimately constituted authority (if we're talking about Western-style liberal democracies) therefore a doctor as both a citizen and an employee of the selfsame legitimate authority can, imo, administer the lethal dose without qualms - the moral onus has been dealt with by jurisprudence. You don't need a relativistic moral argument of whether the offender desrves to die or not, for this issue has already been dealt with by the courts who are enforcing the laws passed by the representational democracy elected by the people. In principle.

however in a non-democratic society where authority does not flow from the will of the populace, a doctor who administers a lethal injection is committing an act tantamount to murder as the execution lacks legitimacy. In principle.

then of course you have the ultimate perversion of the Hippocratic oath, the SS doctors who decided who lived and who died in the concentration camps and who subsequently got experimented on. Bear in mind that these "doctors" had the same training as ordinary doctors and after the war most continued to practice medicine, much as many had done before the war and before the Nazi period.


..the Devil will find work for idle hands to do; i stole and I lied, and why? because you asked me to..

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:17 am

Well, this thread is still here, so... I tend to agree with euthanasia; I feel that it is a suitable option especially if people are in constant pain. After all, animals are put down when they are in constant pain, so why should humans be forced to suffer just to appease society? I could go into far more detail, but that is what is boils down to, at least in my view.

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:46 am

we aren't really talking about euthanasia though are we? it's the moral dimension of doctors providing lethal injections for executions. Euthanasia is a completely separate argument.

but for the record i do wholeheartedley approve of euthanasia for the terminally ill, having watched most of my family die from various forms of cancer I'd galdly spare them the humiliation and indignity of slowly wasting away.

but i don't believe in the death penalty, no matter what the circumstances, even if the guilty party thoroughly deserves to die, as indeed is often the case. People on the right who support the death penalty usually view opposition to it as weakness and soft liberalism and not being tough on crime, but this isnt the case at all. Some people do deserve to die for their crimes, but...some don't. Some haven't committed any crime at all but still get found guilty, and there are countless examples of condemned criminals who got executed who later turned out to be innocent and shouldnt have been executed. But once you've killed someone its too late to go back and say, oh sorry we got it wrong. There have been so many miscarriages of justice in this country over the last few decades and, had the death penalty been in place, those people would be dead by now - Guildford 4, B'ham 6, Barrue Prosser, Stefan Kisko, on and on and on - each one fitted up by the Police or incompetent forensic work (usually by Dr. Frank Scuse)

or is it better than 10 innocent people die rather than one guilty go free? (a point to whoever gets that reference)

..the Devil will find work for idle hands to do; i stole and I lied, and why? because you asked me to..

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:08 am

So you are actually saying(in a way) that the justice system is inefficient? That too many innocents are proven guilty?

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:14 am

The thing is, with the death penalty, one innocent person convicted is too many...

I'm in favour of euthanasia, but I'm uncertain about what it might lead to. Society would likely start putting pressure on senior citizens who, although they might be in perfect health, are using resources while doing nothing productive. That, I think, would eventually lead to compulsory euthanasia, which I don't like the idea of at all.

Post Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:58 am

SW, I'm saying that in the UK over the past few years we've experienced several, indeed too many, high-profile cases where people convicted of murder, terrorist offences etc turned out to be innocent and were jailed on falsified/mistaken police evidence, shoddy forensic work, or where the prosecution withheld relevant facts which would undermine their case and strengthen the defences.

if the death penalty had been in place, these people would be dead and q possibly their cases would never have come back to light.

Capital punishment will probably NEVER come back to Great Britain; have you ever heard of "Let Him Have It..."

basically, in the 1950s, a mentally-handicapped man, Derek Bentley, got dragged into a robbery by his tearway teenage mate, Christopher Craig. The robbery went wrong and they were surrounded by police. Craig had a pistol, and Bentley, who wasn't actually doing anything, shouted "let him have it, Chris" in order to persuade his friend to surrender the gun to the Police. Instead, Craig shot a copper. As Craig was underage, he couldn't be hung, so the Police pushed for Bentley to be hung even though he wasnt holding the gun, hadnt fired, and Craig confessed that he knew exactly what Bentley meant but shot anyway. but Derek Bentley got hung. His family have campaigned for years that he be pardoned and his conviction has subsequently been deemed "unsafe" but he's still got no pardon, and he's still dead.

its one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in British judicial history and even if it were the only one, which it isnt, by itself it would ensure that the death penalty is never brought back.

a case i have personal knowledge of is that of Barrie Prosser, again another simpleton, who comes from the same small Black Country village that my first wife was brought up in. Now Barrie Prosser had mental problems and was an odd bloke, but was harmless. about 15yrs ago, a pregnant woman was murdered on the M5 motorway near this village, she was stabbed to death after being sexually assaulted after her car broke down - this was very distressing for many people as she was only a couple of weeks off giving birth. The police rapidly arrested barrie prosser, he was soon convicted and given a life sentence. His family were subjected to hate mails, physical attacks etc.

some years later, after pressure from outside after evidence of corruption came out regarding the W. Midlands Serious Crimes Squad, the case was looked at agin and it turned out that the Police had no evidence against Prosser, and they'd fabricated the entire case. After being freed, and receiving a huge amount in compensation, he now lives in S Wales as there are still stupid people in his home town who think that because he's still guilty because he's not "normal" Actually he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and finds it difficult to cope with the memory his false imprisonment.

inefficient? I'd say rather that our confrontational justice system is too open to falsification and misinterpretation, and the Police are given far too much freedom. but thats a different matter and one highly coloured by my own experiences at the hands of a not altogether honest local Police force.



..the Devil will find work for idle hands to do; i stole and I lied, and why? because you asked me to..

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