you're raising a false dichotomy where none exists. Most commentators onthis matter now favour a synthesis of the two, a broad spectrum if you will of individuality ranging from genetic predisposition to environment. Almost everyone clumps in towards the middle, as you might imagine.

..how I dearly wish I was not here..

wtf? I'm confused.

Or you could take this posit in the other direction and determine that only those who truly are eccentric or otherwise bizarre are individuals.... so that not even serial killers are "individuated."

It depends on how you define a "true individual". Of course we are all individual, we all have our little eccentricities that make up who we are, everyones being different. I tend to agree with Taw's hypothisis that it is a hybrid influence of environment and genetics that determines our behavioural patterns. Myself and my brother are perfect examples, we both were raised under the same roof, went to the same schools and given the same opportunities. Yet we have vastly different charectoristics, he is a travelling gardener/surfer and I'm an IT guy.

Genetics and Environment? Can it be that you psychanylisisits whatever are forgetting the two most important factors on who we are?

Our Homes (and I don't mean where you live) and the
Spirit/ in rarer cases Ether

I've yet to meet anyone like me in these regards because for me the two are bound together completely and utterly.


These days it seems hard to be individual going by ENVIRONMENT since we have all these *spits* fasions and you have to look "cool" "hip" or "sexy", irrelevant details of life. I can describe myself as INDEPENDANT of ENVIRONMENT however this would not make me a *True* Individual since it only forms a quarter of an individual. To be INDEPENDANT of ENVIRONMENT you must first know what's "in and out" and say screw it and do your own. Also needed I believe is a willingness to evolve and experiment but these are needed for growth and individuality as a whole.

Next individual by GENETICS this can never really be true as we are a hybrid of our parents unless you believe/*know* of energyrial genetics which can in some produce variations.

Home and Spirit I'll finish later

@mustie - sounds like your bro has it sorted!

OT: I'm sorry but imho the individuality argument has got nothing whatsoever to do with nature vs. nurture....I mean, if you want to be completely pedantic you can bring ANY argument down to n vs. n...eg.

"why are you home so late?"
"cosh I wanted to get pished"
"do you want to get pi**ed all the time because its in your genes or is it the way you were brought up?"

...but that really is pointless. The root of the individuality question should really come from philosophy NOT psychology. eg. If a person strives to be an individual, would he truly BE an individual, or would he be conforming to the exact opposite of what society classes as "normal"?

And then you'd get into a much broader, deeper and more interesting argument...

"What is Normal?"

I'll fish out my philosophy thesis and upload it...I wrote 30,000 words on "Perception of Normality". You'll love it

Heltak there are times you speak another language. Wolfy's easier to understand sometimes.

"Our Homes (and I don't mean where you live) and the
Spirit/ in rarer cases Ether"

1. Our Homes - wtf is this supposed to mean? You're obviously implying some spiritual thing, can you explain it in concrete terms i can understand please? I'm guessing you mean "physical bodies" judging from the corollary of your statement.
2. Ether - this doesn't exist my friend, it was a postulate of alchemists as a medium that would allow light to travel through it - unless you're again suggesting some spiritual usage of the same term, as above.

Ether is the simplest word to use for this "Plane"
If by spiritual meaning of the term you imply the sort of "Force" like fusion of Creationistical Energy and Non-Light your correct.

Home is quite simple. The place you belong.

well that's as clear as mud.

*Shrugs* Mud is a clear substance since it is made of Reformed Matter and not Creationistcal Matter... try again Taw

I think yon Celt is saying that we are of our souls, not of material things like genes or of material influences like the environment.

Maybe Celtic souls have some kind of non-cookie cutter mode of construction?

I am much more than a Celt/Scot/Pict whichever tribe you want to label me as but the first line of your reply is correct Ed to a certain degree, only the most foolish and stubborn souls refuse to accept growth and evolution from the material environment and the material genetic structure they are given.

However the souls of this Universe are not of Angels so anyone suddenly thinking Human Instrumentality can go back to sleep.

-~-~-~-~
There is no Silicon Heaven! But where do all the calculators go ?

You could no more evade my wrath... than you could your own shadow!

I give up, I'm lost. i can't follow these mystical neo-celtic conversational tendencies, I'm gonna drop out this conv.



..how I dearly wish I was not here..

"mystical neo-celtic" Um no Taw you just think like a scientest not like a Dragon that's why my messages seem *wrong*.

-~-~-~-~
There is no Silicon Heaven! But where do all the calculators go ?

You could no more evade my wrath... than you could your own shadow!

Edited by - Heltak on 5/28/2004 10:53:28 AM