Sounds like Nixon...

Ah yes. Another stellar moment in our Nation's history.

He did have his good points though, like getting people home if you know what iI mean, but his biggest problem, was more the results of those around him. Yes, the buck does stop at his desk, but others did the work and we have the damage.

@Fd

Let's see. He persuaded the South Vietnamese to walk away from a negotiated peace in Paris because he didn't want the War to end before the election as it might have lowered his chances of beating, of all people, Eugene McCarthy whose character his boys had been assassinating left, right and center.

He caused the War to continue beyond his first term in office, generating more US military casualties and untold civilian casualties in both Vietnams, Laos AND Cambodia.

He didn't last in office the oversee the fall of Saigon. That was left to Gerald Ford because he negotiated a deal to step down from office provided that Ford issue an executive pardon ( which Ford did for the good of the an country totally exhausted by the Watergate Hearings which he made necessary because he would not admit the truth ) so that he could avoid any legal liability for the dirty tricks that he knew about and actually did approve of.

And people wonder how in the world Jimmy Carter won the next election.

Oh yeah. Richard Nixon was a shining light in our history. Really makes me proud to be an American.....NOT.

Edited by - Indy11 on 5/26/2004 8:25:26 PM

Interesting, good ole Yanks!

Oh good, this gives me an excuse to ask my question. Ahem, can you guys tell me exactly why Nixon is often present in American comedy? He appears to be a comical figure for many writers, and is present in "The Simpsons", "Futurama", and many other shows. Therefore, could you could tell me why he is mocked so much? It appears to be some sort of American in-joke (sort of like Howard for us ).

Nixon is a figure of fun because he was unashamedley a crook. And a liar. His ambition for power was endless. He thought himself above the law and all common standards of decency. To find his head still functioning in the 30th C and still up to dirty tricks is a touch of wry commentary. It's the extremity of his corruption that provides the counterpoint to the humour. of all the famous or infamous from the 20th C to survive in some form, you wouldn't have expected Richard Nixon would you?

Thanks, Taw. Can you give me any specific events that he is well-known for?

watergate

Thanks ff, but perhaps I should reiterate. I am feeling too lazy to do my own research, so can you give me more information? I have never studied US history (my area is Medieval Europe ), so my knowledge Re. "Wtaergate", etc is poor.

now i know you're not being serious Esq, everyone knows what Watergate is/was. Next you'll be asking "who's this Hussein-Saddam fellow?" "Moon? what Moon?" "omfg I live in Melbourne!"

ok let's "assume" you're being kosher and you really don't know what Watergate is. In the early 70s Nixon was up for re-election for a 2nd term. There was a break-in at the Watergate Hotel in Wash DC which was the Democrats campaign hq (Nixon was Republican) and in the ensuing investigation the trail of blame for the burglary eventually led back to the President. It transpired that Nixon was spying on and bugging everyone, not just his opponents, and that he was up to all sorts of unconstitutional and illegal dirty tricks which also involved CIA operatives (was Liddy CIA?) & criminals, lying to Congress and the Senate and everyone else, withholding evidence, interfering with witnesses - blatant abuses of power which the US Constitution keeps in check (supposedley)

Nixon shrugged it all off at first, esp as his re-election was successful, as he tried to make sure no-one could pin anything on him, but as more revelations came out (I remember it q well, I was about 8 or 9 and just starting to take an interest in news) it became harder for him to separate himself from the allegations, largely down to the work of 2 journalists from the Wash Pst who wouldn't take no for an answer. Eventually it got to the point where his position was untenable and he was threatened with impeachment. As Ed says, Ford took over and baled NIx out.

what amazed me was how much it aged him. 2 years previously he'd looked confident , healthy, in control, but when he stepped down, he was a broken man - never accepted any blame though. Paranoid and suspicious to the extreme, he trusted no-one and tried to undermine everyone who didn't support him. Bombed Cambodia in secret and thus created the conditions for the Khmer Rouge to flourish.

Some years ago (before he died) there was something of a move by Republicans to rehabilitate Nixon, to concentrate on his achievements rather than his criminal activities. Fell down a bit that, Nixon did permanent damage to the status of the Presidency and even though he pulled America out of Vietnam, his record in office will always be dominated by the Watergate scandal.

but let's make no mistake; he was a very intelligent and capable man who, if he had been able to shed his deep-rooted flaws, could have been one of America's best President ever, but he was without doubt an agent of the Dark Side.

Ed, do you agree with that synopsis?


..how I dearly wish I was not here..



Edited by - Tawakalna on 5/27/2004 5:06:45 AM

Nice job, Taw.

BTW my mistake, again. It was Hubert Humphrey that Nixon first ran against and beat. My mind is turning into a pool of jello.

I would quibble over whether what Nixon did was to actually "pull" us out of Viet Nam in as much as he, through intermediaries, was the one who kept us in there for even longer. And, basically, Ford had to watch the Fall of Saigon ... April 29, 1975. Another 21,000 US soldiers died in Vietnam because of that.

Richard Nixon deliberately interfered with the Acting President's efforts to end the war by arranging to influence the South Vietnamese President, Nguyen Van Thieu to refuse to attend the 1968 Peace Talks. The ground work for those talks was to stop the bombings, which Pres. Johnson did order and which, in turn, would have meant at least a brief lull in the armed conflict.

As far as I know, when someone delibertely acts to sabotage the objectives of the US Government, it is a crime. And this was so that Nixon could improve his own election chances.

Also: Nixon hated Ronald Reagan and Reagan's feelings about Tricky Dick was the same. It IS true that some in the GOP tried to rehabilitated Nixon but that was not for Nixon's benefit but for the party's. They suffered many years with the odious association of having been the Party of Nixon when once they proudly were able to claim to be the Party of Lincoln.

Nixon's elder daughter, Julie Eisenhower, also proved to be very loyal to her father and worked actively to resurrect him from the ashes. Nixon himself tried
to ingratiate himself back into the public stage as some kind of "elder statesman." Although most were sympathetic with an old man trying to improve his image before his death, Nixon never admitted to any wrong doing, never acknowledged what he had done. And, indeed, much of what he did remains buried as state secrets even today. As these little documentary vignettes start to spill out due to an expiration of secrets law protecting them, I imagine there will be even more tarnish than burnish about the man that spills out.

Edited by - Indy11 on 5/27/2004 6:55:57 AM

why did Nixon and Reagan hate each other? I never did figure that out.

..how I dearly wish I was not here..

I don't remember the details and will have to check back. I has been a while. Partly, Nixon had no respect for a movie actor trying to become a politician and he made no secret of it in the GOP.

Partly, Nixon ran for governor of California and lost (after he lost to Kennedy) and his famous "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore!" huff speech after he lost to Edmond "Pat" Brown, I think?

I think Reagan found out about Nixon's disrepect and basically gave back in kind.
And I think it had something to do with that governor's race that Nixon lost. I'll have to dig around.


Edited by - Indy11 on 5/28/2004 3:09:50 AM