@Arcon with cc to Indy

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God damn american society. there's too much pressure on the young to get good grades, do better than everyone, if its not perfect your a disgrace. The HAVE TO ****ING WIN mentality of the country is a joke. Its like telling your kids they only qualify for love if theyre the of a certain standard.

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I disagree, I've been to 9 schools (1 private) and 2 colleges (a University and a Community College). The bulk of education for public schools is catered to the lower end of students with average capabilities. For anyone that can excel or do well in subjects they are never encouraged nor challenged enough.

When I finally went to a private school late in my school years, I realized how much better it was to actually have someone expect something of you rather than just sliding through the grades. My grade point average dropped, but I learned more and felt more prepared because of the rigors of their higher expectations for accomplishment over that of the public schools. I didn't even particularly like the private school that much, but I had much more respect for their curriculum.

It's not just about learning subjects that you may or may not use later in life, it's about learning the discipline to be able to struggle and overcome other life situations in the future. While grades by themselves don't mean much, if you're not challenged when you're young, you have more difficulty meeting challenges when you're older and on your own.

Sir S

Grades are everything.
The way I see it, since schools obviously don't exist to TEACH you interesting or useful things (except primary school, that's essential, as well as probably the first 2/3 years of secondary), it's sole purpose is to break your spirit, and send you into society as a souless slave for prospective employers.
The only thing I'm going to get from school is qualifications. I'm under the distinct impression that I know more about half my subjects than my teachers (my history teacher didn't know what Italy's religion in WW2 was, she said they were Fascist, as if that would answer the question) and the curriculum is just flat out ridiculous. We went through the entire Cold War without even once mentioning Korea, and our English subject is plain pathetic.

One time, in my class, a pupil (14 years old, considered very intelligent, by all except me) asked what a metaphor was. A METAPHOR!!! Is this the product of our education system?! Something has gone horribly wrong.

But yeah, I do think America's education system is way better in many ways, first of all, more choice of subjects, also, no uniforms and they have things like school papers etc.

@Mods- this thread seems to be taking on a bit of a political flavour, but please don't lock it. Yet, anyway.

<-> INSERT SIGNATURE HERE <->

Germany has a good/bad school system (either way, I find school cr*p).

We 4 have 4 different schools for a secondary school level:

-Sozialschule (For those who can't stop fighting, etc all day long [probably end up in prison by the end of school)

-Hauptschule (A titch more civilized people, but still complete dumb*sses. You can hardly get worse).

-Realschule (I think around 75% here actually are in one and then make an "abschluss" [someone help me! and then make a "Hauptabschluss" [Generalschool leaving test thingy taken by Gymnasiasten. They're basically compared to the normal schools in england).

-Gymnasium (Its the school where they keep on using those odd terms which are really confusing and you'll never use them in the rest of your life. It does save you a few years if you want to have a "hauptabschluss".)

Btw, I'm on a Gymnasium

@SnS

I was going to get to where you've gotten eventually. I just wanted to know what the real situation was first. If Wolfy had an A+ and it went down to an A, that's one thing. If Wolfy had a B and it went down to a C, that's another thing altogether.

To put it another way, it's about learning how to learn and the acquiring the skills/disciplines needed to learn well.

Edited by - Indy11 on 4/2/2004 10:00:10 AM

Have anyone noticed my recent lack in activty here?

Wolfy, i've been studying hard as crap for a month now, and my tests are going really good, and so is school

Anyway, you HAVE TO STUDY. Im not meaning to be cruel to you or something, but, you HAVE TO STUDY. That's what i did, and no having MVG (in Swedish its Mycket Väl Godkänt, wich would be like "Very Good" or something on a test in some other country. So, KEEP STUDY AND GET OF THE NET!!! Hell, you should not even be able to read this post

Well study is the best, but nobody likes to. I did a bit actually a lot worse than usual, but luckily my parents dont mind that much I think they decided that i only work for myself and that I have to realise myself that hard work is the best. Round here we have to have good marks to enter university so I have to study unfortunately

Computers are machines that help use solve problems we wouldn't have if we didn't have computers!

Actually, my parents could care less about my grade in PE. Don't worry about it wolfy, PE isn't that important. You think you have it bad? My gym teacher had a heart attack last year. Ironic ain't it?

Dark Helmet: Gimme that, you petty excuse of an officer!
Now hear this: LUDICROUS SPEED!!!
Col. Sanders: Sir, hadn't you better buckle up?
Dark Helmet: Eh, buckle this! Ludicrous speed...GO!!!

SS, Arcon is right at some point, basicly, The whole society is demanding perfection of the younger citizens of every Nation, thats true, IMO some Nations around the world (to avoid a Great Flame fest I won't include names, but you all know which I mean) are too much oriented on Prestige, and not only mentally, also Physically.
In Holland, if you are Over 50 and you get sacked then its the unemploiment office for you, but there is a nill chance that you will ever get to practice a Job.
more and more I see a climate developing that is like: get ill on the Job and you see a risk of getting sacked becoming bigger and bigger, The latest plan that our Legislation wanted to push through, is like getting a bonus for NOT getting ill. The more you get ill, the more they cut from the Wage. I thank any God on me bare knees that it was bounced off for being discriminate.

Now to discuss Wolfy's Situation, I think you are part right with your explanation on your education, but I must also point out that there is Strain and Motivation,
IMO you were on less strain then Wolfy is, which IMO powered your Urge to Succeed for lack of a better word. The Way I see Wolfy's situation is where te Urge to Succeed is suppressed by strain from a superior source, of which he is very clearly dependant, and I think we all, especially those with a degree, or even the slightest education in Psychology, will tell you that too much strain to succeed will only result in an averse effect, only (especially with male pre-adolescents) creating the urge to rebel.
In the absolute worse case, The Instincts of man will take over, and will effectively terminate the stress factor in general, IE shooting, stabbing, in any case, Killing it.

My advice to Wolfy:
you say you slipped a grade, OK, your 'ole folks all over your Back for doing it, OK
Let your folks be for what they are, but also LISTEN to their advice, if they are mad, do not in no case respond with mad, be calm. I know it's tough, but if you will respond their madness with your own Madness, you will only create one big Argument, where, in any case, you bite dirt. if you respond Calm I think your folks will realise that you also want to do it, but don't really know how. I think, I actually almost know for certain that they will then help you and ease down on the whole strain, and letting you get back to motivation, in which case, at least I think, everybody is happy.

Good luck from me, and if you wish to talk, my email is open.

when I was in High school, I graduated with stait As an IB Degree, but Thats cuase at the begining of high school, I got a C+ and My parents went totaly balistic.

I had a super Ego, but it was pestering me so I killed it.

When I shot it the bullet grazed my soul, and that bled to death too

It's hard to see it when your young. School seems such a bore. But the thing is, you only get one shot at it. Yea, you can get a GED if you wash out, but you only have one time in your life where learning is put in front of you. Take it while you can. Like Ss said, its more the discipline of learning than the subjects themselves. Learning how to learn, makes everything else easier. Who knows what you may want to do one day, or what you May do one day.

Michael "Finalday"
In Memory Of WLB

I take that back


Computers are machines that help use solve problems we wouldn't have if we didn't have computers!

Edited by - sycho_warrior on 4/3/2004 12:48:52 PM

@Loc, I assume you're talking about 1st World nations as they have the highest education levels. While other parts of the world may put a "strain" on kids to compete with the United States in the world, with the introduction of the "service & product" society our kids don't have to work on farms or in family businesses all day long and still have to manage attending school. Children have more free and play time then ever before in human history. And yet, having looked at some tests for 10-13 year olds (posted in a historic preservation magazine) back in the early 1900's for classrooms in small one-room schools, the students could do arithmetic that I didn't learn until I was in High School and still had to work morning and nights on the farm. Kids are able to handle a lot more than modern understanding is willing to give them credit for.

As for overbearing pressure, there are parents and some schools which do that. They breed their kids for places like Harvard and Yale, or Oxford and Cambridge (Maybe there are better English examples, I don't know), but don't try to claim that is the majority. I've been to enough schools and hear plenty of news of falling test scores to know it is not. At least here in the US, which is the original statement I was responding to.

Sir S

Ss, if you look at what the kids of the early 1900s had to do at school, you'll notice they weren't given half as many homework assignments. Also they were not required to do long pieces of coursework to pass their exams, instead it all boiled down to a few written tests at the end of the school year. At least back then there was a clear cut divide between the time spent playing or working and the time spent learning, when the school bell went that would be it until the next day.
I'd have to agree with you on the differences between countries too. I have a bunch of Chinese friends at my school, and they get more pressure from their parents than anyone else. In fact it seems its always us native Brits who are the most laid back, I guess we don't realise how lucky we are.

Just out of interest, doesn't the US have an equivalent of grammar schools? They're state schools that are super selective as to who gets in. They allow the really bright to attend the same school and work in an environment where we don't have to wait for the slower pupils all the time. Unfortunately the current govt. here wants to abolish them because somehow they're discriminatory. I find that funny when the whole idea of grammar schools is to help kids based on their merits. The real world works in exactly the same way, capitalism is meritocratic.
Still, if I tell someone that I attend a grammar school I often get long-winded extremely left wing arguments thrown at me. Equally among your peers at other schools it singles you out somewhat for abuse, they don't throw arguments at you though, they throw rocks.

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I am the signature virus! Copy me into your signature so that I can take over the world! Moohahahee!

We have 1. Elementary schools grades 1-5 2. Middle school grades 6-8 3. High school grades 9-12. This will very a little. We have Montessori schools, Charter schools, And the selective private schools, and Home Schooling done by the parents. There are now Pre-K schools that work with kids as young as 4 years old. All of which need a little work these days. .

Edit- The charter schools are amied at those who are capable of doing more than the average. A slight seperation is needed, as the slower students need more time focused on them to get the same lesson that the faster students already have. The faster one will then get bored and in trouble if not motivated and challenged with more indepth learning.

Michael "Finalday"
In Memory Of WLB

Edited by - Finalday on 4/4/2004 8:24:51 AM