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"The Island At The Center Of The World"

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:22 am

"The Island At The Center Of The World"

The Epic Story of Dutch Manhattan and the Forgotten Colony That Shaped America - Russell Shorto, Doubleday.

Just thought I would make note here that a long overdue revisitation of New York's Dutch heritage is now available. Much of it is sourced from Adriaen Van Der Donck's "Description of New Netherland."

I haven't been able to read it yet but an interesting excerpt in a review is that "without the adventurous Dutch spirit...New York would have become another English New World port town like Boston, and American culture would never have developed as it did."

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:22 pm

such a shame, then the yanks would be drinking tea and be civilised

Windows NT crashed.
I am the Blue Screen of Death.
No one hears your screams

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:47 pm

Tea? We drink kouafee over here.

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:03 pm

Coffee? We drink carbonated stuff a little further west than that. Stuff called Mountain Dew.

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:06 pm

hmmmm, thx Ed, I think I shall give that one a whirl. Just been reading a novel that involves the Dutvh Cape Colony in S. Africa so my interest in Dutch settlement is piqued, to say the least

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:19 pm

Go Dutchies

Yeah, New York was once New Amsterdam. Shame it got traded for "Suriname". Talk about a bad trade, there you got one.

I also heard that USA was just one vote away from speaking Dutch instead of English. Now that would have been something, wouldn't it?

We'd have a Dutch FL with New Amsterdam as a system.

You were gone?

Edit: Damn spelling.

- I'm not crazy, I'm a car. And if you don't believe me, you can get out and walk home. -
*** The Titan flies like a cow ***
Fight like a Warlord

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:23 pm

I could handle the tea, just not the milk/cream aspect. And make mine double sweet at that

Michael "Finalday"
In Memory Of WLB

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:50 pm

Cape Colony? Is there anything written that doesn't melt down into an almost hoary saga like tale of the voortrekkers?

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:49 pm

i thought we were 1 away from speaking german?

*i removed the chain letter from my sig*

Post Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:59 pm

Ya, when it came to a vote on which language to use, it was english or german. Evedently, english won.

But there was a grand dutch involvment in NYC. Hudson was dutch is memory serves.

Life: No one gets out alive.

Post Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:46 am

not this one Ed, it concerns astrology, metaphysics, and an incestuous family of Cape Dutch nymphomaniacs. And slavery. Not a Voortrekker in sight

Post Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:28 am

@Taw

LOL. Oh... so you're just reading up on the English aspects?

@RILMS - Warning, following may bore you but in case you are interested:

"Hendrik" Hudson was English. But he varyingly was backed by English and/or Dutch financiers depending upon his voyage to the New World. (hence the Dutch spelling of his first name also being "valid". But his "discovery" of Manhattan, the Hudson River, etc. was under a Dutch West Indies Company contract (1609).

The point would be that a French contract was granted to Giovanni da Verrazzano (an Italian from Tuscany) in around 1524-5 who also entered the waters of New York Harbor, the Hudson River, Long Island Sound, Narragansett Bay, and many more shores up through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland (New York City's Verrazzano Narrows <straits> and Bridge now bear his name). Being rather single-minded, however, Verrazzano's sole purpose was to discover and
lay claim to the Northwest Passage in the name of the King of France (Francis I) so he did not claim these lands at the time. Had he done so, as he first came to landfall off the shores of North Carolina and then voyaged North, much of what would become the original 13 colonies could have been French.

The permanent New Amsterdam settlement on Manhattan is credited to Peter Minuit who paid 60 guilders to the Lenape Indians he met with under the presumption that they had title to Manhattan Island and had the authority to sell the island (a fact now in question academically).In fact, the Dutch already were settled on Manhattan at the time (1624, Capt. Cornelius May on
the New Netherland) and Minuit's arrival there (1626) was as the third of a succession of Directors of the settlement.

Peter Minuit was NOT ethnically Dutch. He was a Walloon. In that complex mixture of faiths and languages that is Belgium even today, his was a family of French speaking Protestants who had to flee to Holland to escape the persecution of the Spanish whose Catholic monarchy at the time had held royal title and claim to the Low Countries and from whom the Dutch, at least, had
been able to become independent (also recall the Spanis Inquisition - real version as opposed to Monty Python's ).

Minuit himself was born to his Walloon parents in Germany. Anyway, after the Dutch took possession of Manhattan Island, it functioned as a busy Dutch sea port until 1664 when the English sent warships to New Amsterdam and took over without too much resistance (the place was not well defended at the time). The English first rename the place Fort James and then fairly quickly New York after that. In 1673, the Dutch retook "New Amsterdam" but then cede it back to England in 1674, from which time the settlement was known as New York.

The Dutch people of New York, however, were not evicted by the English. While some may have left with the change in regime, most stayed, not only in Manhattan but throughout the Hudson River Valley and westward as well (northern New Jersey, Mohawk Valley).

Post Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:33 am

named New York not after the city of York but in honour of James, Duke of York, King Charles II's brother and later King James II (the one we got rid of and replaced with the WilliamandMary, also known as the Orange)

Post Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:12 am

James, Duke of York.... I didn' know that. Thanks.

Oh yes. The same "Orange" as in Holland's Royal House, remains today in New York in various forms: The University of Syracuse call their sports teams "Orangemen." We also have the University of Hofstra's "Flying Dutchmen." The City flag of New York's colors are blue, white and orange in honor of its Dutch origins. And there are many towns, or geological features
especially around the lower Hudson Valley that have retained their Dutch (albeit Americanized) names.

Post Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:27 am

I actually have a copy of a map made for/in honour of James when we got hold of the town at first. You can clearly see Wall Street (the original line of the town wall) and the Battery, 'cos that's where the cannons were. I'll scan it and send it you by e-mail, if you like actually if you can wait a couple of weeks, I can of course drop it off in person

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