how do you know I wasn't being serious before?

a society in which I was the supreme power and decided everything would be excellent, and not just for me, but for everyone else.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 1/2/2004 5:27:16 AM

i doubt that, how can you know what is best for you is also good for everyone

I just know, ok? trust me on this..

as a partial expansion upon this (I haven't got the time to go into detail because I'm at work on me own, again!) the issue of human happiness and fulfilment is inextricably linked to the issue or power and control in one's own life. While most people imagine, superficially, their Utopias to be a paradise of indulgence, and never think more deeply about it than that, in reality these daydreams are desires to escape the mundanity and relative powerlessness of everyday life. That's why rich and powerful people are (usually but not always) a lot happier and more fun to be around, because wealth gives them the control they need over their lives, for which the indulgency is a consequence.

In my experience it's also the reason people use drugs.

My own desire for an ordered regimented society is because that actually makes me happy. My paranoid compulsive obsessive disorder makes it impossible for me to realx until everything is neatly tidied and put away, everything is clean, all equipment is clean and in full working order, and all tasks are performed quickly and efficiently. it's also the reason I'm always fixing things - it's all about control of one's environment and living space. So I've merley extended that from the environment I can control, i.e. home, into the outside world. Hence why it's a Utopia. As everything I do is as much for other people's benefit as it is for my endorphin fix, it's therefore by logical extension a Utopia for everyone else too! Q.E.D.





Edited by - Tawakalna on 1/2/2004 6:14:07 AM

Taw, I would seriously like to meet you some day in the future
because I doubt you like my personal way of life, I am very messy
but anyway on to the subject at hand,

Utopias, My personal Utopia is very simple...
It is to be Immortal, I wish to be completely Immortal
why you ask, It is to see all the coming ages of the world see how the world will develop itself from now until the End of Days (<- Not the religious one, just the day the earth will stop moving about) all the cultures and stuff.

I do not care if I have to do that alone, Don't get me wrong here because I love my family, but I just wish to see the best things possible, and as we all know the best is yet to come, (plus I want to be able to say in 5000 years from now, That I am over 5000 years "Young" )

__________________________________________________________
Oh, dear, How sad, Never mind!!-Battery Sergeant Major Williams
Plus the newest addition!!-

@ff

So you've already read Plato and all that, right? A utopia, for me, is one in which each person is able to pursue his or her own idea of happiness to the utmost fulfillment of it without, in any way, doing harm, injustice or injury to anyone else. That each may be materially supported to the degree to which he or she desires... whether it be utter opulence or the basics needed to survive in a wilderness.

This would, of course, place certain kinds of people in conflict with my ideal. I.e.: Serial killers, other socio-psychopaths, megalomaniacs, etc., etc.

In my utopia, these would be the unhappy and unfulfilled as no matter what they do, they are unable to do injury, injustice or harm to anyone else.

oh pooh that's me stuffed in Indy-world then

When people talk about Utopias, any historical references usually revolve around Plato's Republic, Thomas More's Utopia (from which we get the term) and possibly John Ruskin/William Morris. Myself I rather warm to visual Utopiae. Ever seen the Utopian visions that came out the French Revolution, such as those of Boullée? or later the industrialised cities that were depicted in Lang's Metropolis, inspired by the works of le Corbusier (Cité Lunatique du Ciel j/k) and Tony Garnier's Cité Industrielle, parts of which were actually built in Lyons. of course there's always HG Wells "Shape of Things to Come" but by that time the Utopian dream was losing its' appeal to some extent. The last real effort to give form to the Utopian vision was the social-engineering of the 1960s and the Brutalist movement in architecture which made all those horrible council estate high-rises that plague us still.

Much as I'm drawn to the visual and planning aspects of this sort of thinking, it's actually complete cr*p isn't it? Never worked, even when implemented by some of the greatest minds of the time like Mies van der Rohe & Jeanneret (le Corbusier) and he was distraught after l'Unité d'Habitation was built and the residents started putting plants and shutters in their windows and making porches for their doors! pr*t. It's just an unnatural way for people to live. Looks great on paper though.

anyway ff you haven't told us yours yet, after all this.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 1/2/2004 2:24:37 PM

my utopia: i have a decent job, a mrs, maybe a dog and a cat ( no kids, the cat and dog are enough of a handfull )

I kinda like Loc's idea, it would be kinda cool to be a bit like the highlander and live through history and never die. Except without the people trying to lop your head off of course.

wouldn't you get bored after the first few hundred years? also you'd have to age really slowly or not at all, otherwise you'd be like those incredibly old people in Gulliver's travels, who don't die they just get older, weaker, and go insane. Wouldn't it be a curse rather than a blessing?

utopia is a word i think people use to define there dreams . In ure dreams u are where u wanna be and doing the things u wanna do so my utopia is
in between jo guests jugs lol
oh if u dont know who jo is this is herand yes she is dressed before mods get me

have you ever used your light saber to open a bottle of Bud Light???????


Edited by - {NH}blade_chaser on 1/2/2004 3:29:17 PM

ff - What are you implying??!?! We won the war, and forced your tiny nation to flee the planet. Viva la Motherland! .

Fine. Back on topic. I do not feel that there is such a thing as a "Utopia". First of all, can we ever truly define a "Utopia"? No. While we can provide a semantic definition, everyone has their own personalised view of a perfect world. For this reason, everyone's view is different, and thus a Utopia in only an individual's personal view of paradise. This of course, means that everyone will have a different view, and that these views will inevitably conflict with other ideologies.

Secondly, can we even conceive of a Utopia? Humans are flawed by nature, and thus how can a flawed individual ever truly perceive something as being perfect? Think about it, if a person is flawed, whether in a physical or mental state, this affects their perceptions, and thus eliminates any possibility of perceiving perfection. Therefore, the individual's view of the perfect world is flawed and thus, is not perfect (except to that individual).

Thus, there is no such thing as a Utopia. At least, not in the real world. If you would like to get into spiritual Utopias, that's another story. Let's just not get too religious if we decide to discuss it, ok?

Esquilax

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Ach, ye speak like a poet, but ye punch like one too! - Willy

Edited by - esquilax on 1/2/2004 3:53:40 PM

@Mustang

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Except without the people trying to lop your head off of course.

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No you're are completely Immortal. Nothing can happen to you.

As for Taw, I think not, at least not me, I wouldn't go crazy
but it would be nice to see all the ages to come, you can see whats beyond tomorrow without actually worrying what would happen to you, and yes in a Similar way as the Highlander. You do not age, if it would happen to you for instance on your 21st birthday, you would remain 21 forever, even after the world would cease to exist, you shall remain the way you are now, Forever.

(If you want you can float through space surfin the solar winds till you come accross the next system. )



__________________________________________________________
Oh, dear, How sad, Never mind!!-Battery Sergeant Major Williams
Plus the newest addition!!-

Edited by - Locutus on 1/2/2004 4:03:14 PM

no, all hail the glorious FART, we will cover the land in a cloud..of FREEDOM

you wanted a serious discussion and now you're dragging the other thread in!