Thanks for all the feedback guys. Arcon and Tach hit the nail right on the head with their replies. They have given us a very clear picture of what has happened to TLR and is still happening. Quite frankly, it´s disturbing to be confronted with it and to witness isn´t it ? I can totally relate to you Tach in so many ways. I too came to TLR to find a peaceful, well moderated, gentle, insightful and informative site about FL with accompanying forums, where mature (not especially in age, but in their doings) people have meaningful discussions about FL and such. Why ? Because the internet is one giant zoo and most forums are unmoderated (or very poor moderated), unnecessary (if you ask me) and disastrous kindergartens with absolutely no content whatsoever and no contribution to any community. TLR was different in so many (good) ways. I hate it when I come to a forum where the only thing I see is posts and text in capital letters, way too many exclamation marks, a lot of meaningless and childish animated gifs, screaming banners, text and posts in all colors of the rainbow etc. Who needs all that ? I guess you all know the answer to that !

Anyway, I started this thread to confront some of you who haven´t noticed, that this site is going downhill and fast. I wanted to wake some of you up and let you smell the coffee. I wanted to open your eyes and at the same time tell you what has been bothering me lately regarding TLR. The only ones who can turn the tide are we, the FL fans and members of this fine site. Let us all give it a little bit more thought the next time we are starting a new thread or giving a reply.

I agree with most points here, all the longtermers have had to deal with some major upheavels to what was once a happy little homepage to many of us. Im trying to visit the FL general, spoiler and OT forums daily and make sure that people are generaly behaving themselves. The biggest problem is that it's very hard to maintain the level of scrutiny with the posts that was done previously and a lot of the posts are just 'Look at me I can post a new topic' type threads which are very very boring to read.
But we are still very much in the boom period, I strongly feel that things will peter out again. Although it will be hectic here for another 6 months or so, the place will be back to a semi-state of normal when we really settle in for the wait for Freelancer 2 or whatever super fun happy game DA decide to do next.

Still Eraser, your absense is well understood. Keep in mind though it used to get very very quite and very boring around here from time to time. I remember when we would go 7 days plus without posting a new topic on any forum.

Case in point, since right before March this year I got into the occasional debate with people and it was nothing more than a"spirited" conversation. Then we had the influx of new peeps and I was labelled many unmentionable names, my good name was slicked und diced und shreadded unlike I've ever seen before, then I backed off and become 99% pure moderator. Same person all along, same dry humor, just different readers.

I miss the days when people would just recognize my dry humor and a few even looked forward to it. Sadly, those days are gone and my time visited has been GREATLY reduced for fear of misrepresenting the good name of the website.

Someday, things may return to simpler days, but my skins been ripped away in strips so much I'll never be the same.

Yeah, it´s a damn shame what they did to you Sting. I remember when the flooding began and from all the shots being fired, you definitely got hit the most. It´s a real shame that you aren´t posting that much anymore, because I (and probably a lot more people) really miss your often amusing, witty and sometimes slighty cynical posts. Though I can really understand why you made your decision, I truly hope that when things have calmed down a bit, you´ll make an appearance more often. Anyway, thanks for giving your perspective on my original post.

Yeah, I have noticed this my very few past visits to TLR . Its a real shame since TLR used to be such a good place to post.

Anyway I am glad to see some of you guys, EB, Stinger, Mustang, Eraser, Tach, and wiz are still around.

since the time i joined TLR about 2 months ago i've noticed how much people like to spam, firstly it's pointless, secondly there's no reason for it and thirdly why do people do it. I'm sorry if i sound like i'm ranting but it's just the way things are. Also another possible reason that people like to spam is because they want to get their rank in the forum up, in my opinion i don't give two monkey's what my rank is and other people should take up this way of thinking and maybe then we would start to see the amount of useless and unessesary posts drop. I'm sorry if this sounds like my previous post but the subject of spam just gets me angry

"Make it so Number One"
Captain Picard 'Star Trek the Next Generation'

I've been a member since about the time I bought FL....I didn't get into Starlancer...

Over the past few months...I seem to have gotten a reputation.

Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

TLR has been good to me....But I have all but stopped posting here for one reason and one reason only.....MODDERS.

A lot of the modders that come to this site (I don't mean ALL modders, just most) seem to come here to get modding ideas...so they can go into servers that have no mods...to try to crash them, or they are just morons, and don't pay attention. Since Modding of freelancer started full force...where everone and thier brother are trying mods....TLR's goodness, in my opinion has decreased.

I still respect the Mods and admins here...Just not the people that argue over little tiny crap, like why Trent didn't hook up with Juni...and the people that try to mod the game, or cheat. Seems that TLR is getting loaded with people that want to cheat so badly, they will give themselves the Uber shield that nothing can get thru....which, conveniently, can be found here.

Most mods I have no problem with...Just the ones that affect game play.

The average poster here at TLR seems to just want to flame Microsoft, DA, and other posters....If those activities can be weeded out..TLR could be restored to it's former greatness, as the BEST Freelancer information site out there.

This game is way too easy to cheat people. WHen you can legitly get a VHF in a couple of hours.

Why, I ask, must people ruin it for others?

@Eraser:

You should take the mod position if it's offered to you. I always thought you should have been one.



-Arg

Join The Argonian Ryders



Something Awful

Yeah, Eraser has been here as long as I can remember, and it's been a shame not having you in the forums lately. I stay out of the FL forums now, I'm only in off-topic. Even then, I don't say much unless I feel that it is really worth saying. The site used to be so great because we could really have discussions. Now, the quality of the forum is degrading, thanks to the countless spammers that have joined recently. Look! I've been here for what, more than two years, and I'm still a captain! (Granted, this is partly due to our last post recount) Without meaning to offend anyone, I think that those of you who have been here a month and already have 500 posts have an awful lot to learn.
_______________________________________________________
-Fang

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not too sure about the former.

-Albert Einstein

A Liberal is a man who is too broad-minded to take his own side in an argument.
-Robert Frost
Join my army[!



Edited by - Fang on 25-06-2003 22:04:02

Stinger, I know you took a lot of hits during the first few months, and I feel sort of guilty for not coming as much then to help you out I really hope you (and the rest of us) can get back to some deep and interesting conversations again, which leads me to my next point. Should we wait for all of this to blow over, or should the admins take a very aggressive stance and start laying the click down on all spam/useless posts/etc, like a crusade? I mean, we can't go around banning everyone, that wouldn't be fair and not in the spirit of TLR. Every other thread could be locked, but I'm afraid that might drive some people off, that I would rather have stay. Waiting it out doesn't seem to be working, and I personally would like to take some sort of action. What can we do, though? It would be difficult to force people to make only interesting/thoughtful/etc threads, and I think trying to pick and choose which threads "aren't" and locking them could be just as dangerous as mass clicking.

So, if anybody is interested in starting a renaissance of TLRs own, do you have any ideas? Doesn't matter if you're a newbie or oldbie, your opinion counts (as long as you aren't a flamer ). I can honestly say I've felt the impact of not having a forum (in the non-internet meaning) to visit in addition to real life, and I'd like to see something done, even if it is just hunkering down and waiting it out.

Edit: I want to add that now that there is a thread about this issue and that I realize that there's other people who feel the same as me, I feel a lot better about coming

Edited by - Tachyon on 26-06-2003 04:49:33

It´s good to know that the thread I started is making a few members realise that all hope is not lost yet and something can still be done. Especially you Tach, it´s good to see that you are actually feeling better about coming here because of this thread and realised that you are not alone in this. I agree with you that something has to be done, but what ? I have always been a supporter of the fact that a few members with some credibility and authority to some extent, have helped the TLR staff by keeping an eye out for things getting out of control. Those members have always tried to calm certain people down from time to time, been objective as much as possible, argued in a fashionable manner with people who kept breaking every single rule by starting threads which aren´t allowed, using strong language and being plain rude and irritating. Those members are like moderators without power and there´s the real problem. Most of these irritating trolls aren´t listening to those members, regarding their ranks, join date etc. I think that you moderators should be around more than you do now and check if everything is under control and if there´s a troll or something else going on, then you should warn these people. If you have repeatedly warned these people (in public) about political threads, use of strong language, namecalling etc., than you guys are entitled to lock a thread. It would indeed not be wise to just start clicking around wildly like you are John Wayne or something, but if everyone witnessed you hand out warnings repeatedly, than nobody can blame you for locking a thread. IMO the trick is to be very clear in a reply in that particular thread about why you are locking it and most people will understand. The problem which occured in the past was that some mods locked threads without explanation. If you just put in a few words everytime about your reasons for locking it, than most will understand and not bitch and moan about it. Sure, some will always whine about it, but the majority rules right ? What do you mods think about this ?

PS. of course the TLR loving persons (like me) will also have to lend a hand when possible by trying to convince those who are in violation of TLR´s code of conduct so to speak, to behave and act more mature.

This thread sure worked for me -- I made exactly 0 replys just for the sake of replying. (in the last 16-or-so hours) And I'm planning on continuing my presence here in a similar manner. What I want to say is: Make a thread like this in discussion and spoiler forum as well, and let people know the (disturbing) truth, and how it can (and should) be handled. It WILL work. In addition, I think that some serious clicking would be in order -- after all, you make those calls, and if so many mods agree that 50% (well, maybe not 50%...) of the posts should be closed or deleted - so be it.
I also think that you need to post an explanation to why a thread has been locked, because some people obviously can't tell why... they just make an identical ALL CAPS thread all over again... Also, if you find the time for it, try appearing in wayward threads, make a "suggestion" or two, and if the thread continues deteriorating, click it...
OK, this post isn't exactly enlightening, but it may be helpful yo know that there are people prone to following (good) suggestions...

EDIT: Eraser beat me to it... I mean he posted the exact same post, only better while I was typing out mine... But this tells a story, doesn't it?


Edited by - Chetnik on 26-06-2003 09:33:32

I know it's drastic but one option would be to divide the OT forum into two new parts. One might be a "General Discussion" forum, much as this forum was originally envisaged, while a second forum, perhaps called something like "The Sandbox" could be used for joke threads, funny links, forum games and other general messing around. Thus if you wanted to see the jokes, you could just pop into the "Sandbox" forum and have fun without upsetting people with the level of immaturity in there. We would just have to make sure that people realise that the "General Discussion" forum would be for serious discussion and/or debates.
I don't think it would be fair to crack down on everybody who wants to have some fun and share some laughs, but at the same time I understand the need for decent discussion.
This is just my 2 cents, I honestly don't know how difficult it would be for the staff at TLR to do this or how badly this would affect the server.

Nah, wouldn't work IMO.

-- The Lancersreactor: where the screenshots are never blurry, and the script kiddies get publically kicked around.

The Lancersreactor FAQ
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And why should we need another moderator? The current staff is good IMHO.

Edited by - Wizard on 26-06-2003 16:50:11

if we were going to get another mod it would need to be someone who has been here a long time and who would give the spammers a hard time. I personaly would love to become a mod but i lack the experience needed, if anyone it should be eraser who becomes a mod

"Make it so Number One"
Captain Picard 'Star Trek the Next Generation'