I just thought the way i mentioned that maybe could have been a little rude, and normally i prefer to be polite, especially if someone helps me. Ok, then we can exlude this offending chapter, now let's get back to work (grin).

I'm sure we're going over something that has been overlooked, as i'm searching in these forums since the week before last week, several hours per day (not including the time i spent to build my mod!), and although there are a lot of threads concerning texturing issues i still didn't get the clue about some of the "essentials" of texturing, as formats and things like that. I'm starting to think that e.g. different formats have different influences to the game, depending on the kind of computer system you use?

Anyway, i guess the biggest problem i have is not beeing able to convert the textures as they should be. I've got no Photo or graphic program except from corel painter classic and the ddscv i downloaded somewhere here.
Painter classic can save bmps, jpegs, etc as tga file, but there is no option to adjust the bitmap depth, they're all 32bit. Ddscv does the same, and i'm even not sure if it compresses the dds files. So i search for an option to set up my textures properly on another way. Don't you know a solution for this, or maybe a link to a freeware prog which is capable for this purpose?

And there's one thing i wonder about: a lot of people here assume to use 24bit or 32bit textures, you're the first one who assumes using 8bit files. No doubt, your way surely is working, but that brings me back to my suggestion of texture formats influencing the game due to the usage of different platforms.

By the way, i created the 3db file as you told me, opening the mat in HardCMP, saving it as 3db. But no difference, mod is working fine, ship still is invisible.
Any idea?

Freelancer uses 2 types of TGA, INDEX & RGB, you realy want to be using a 24 bit uncompressed and vertically flipped RGB TGA. This means 8 bit RED, 8 bit GREEN & 8 bit BLUE colour channels, if you have a 32 bit tga then you also have an 8 bit Alpha channel which is useless on a ship (useless on most other models to).

Flipping a TGA confuses a lot of people as they think it's something wierd and difficult, in photoshop it's under the "image" dropdown menu, highlight the "rotate canvas" option and the tree will show 6 new options, the bottom one is the one you want "flip canvas vertically". All it does is turn the canvas over so the Top is at the bottom and vice versa.

If you have either Paintshop or Photoshop then head to the Nvidia site and get the DDS plug-in as DDS is far better IMHO than TGA (I've converted almost all of the vanilla TGA's into DDS).

Back faces aren't really an issue as FL just won't show them, most of the vanilla ships have back faces but because thier double skinned you don't realise it.

For a noob using HardCmp is the easiest way to hardpoint, once you get more experienced then you can do it in Milkshape.

The 3DB file is the icon you see in the shipdealer, that little picture next to the the name & price. just do what you were doing and us a vanilla one for now as it's not important yet, you'd be surprised just how many people don't make icons for thier ships.

Hardpoints don't you just lovve them It's surprising just how many people don't know the right names and numbers for them. Take a look at the FLSpew file after you've run a big mod and all you see are dozens and dozens of "missing hardpoint" errors. Caused by misnaming them in the CMP or INI or by forgetting just how many were in the CMP to start with.

@ Leopard2A6, send me your textures and I'll send you them back as beautifull DXT1 DDs. If you don't want to try P2P and download a hacked copy of Photoshop, then I'd recommend the GIMP as it has most of the features of photoshop.

@ Rankor, Photoimpression4 probably saved them as compressed by default, where as Paintshop, the Gimp & Photoshop save as uncompressed.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Bejaymac, i would love to have transparent cockpitglass, and for that purpose i thought you HAVE to use textures with alpha channel?

What is P2P, the pic2pic converter? From where can i get it, and from where can i get GIMP?

I don't have either Paintshop or Photoshop. Few minutes ago i went to nvidia site to look for this dds plugin, but the only plugins i could find are for Photoshop, 3dsmax and maya, and i don't have these programs either, so they're completely useless to me.

It's very kind of you to offer doing the converting job for me, but i hope you can understand that i would like to be able to do it myself, because as you should know in process of building a ship and making the textures for it you often have to put the texture on the model, look how it fits, then go back to readjust the texture, again put it on the model to look, readjust it again, and again and again and again, so it wouldn't be very productive if each time i would have to ask you to convert the adjusted texture for me, that simply would eat up too much time, don't you think?
Is there no possibility to get some freeware to convert textures for the use in FL?

But this flipping thing, maybe one of my programs is able to do it, i'm just not sure in which direction this flipping should be.
Imagine a peace of paper lying on a table in front of you, one side is white, showing up, the other side is black having contact to the table's surface. Now how should i flip it? Like sticking a needle into the middle of it and rotating it 180 degrees, the white side still showing up, the black side lying on the table, or like grabbing it an flip it around so that the black side is showing up and the white side is having contact to the tables surface?
Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/27/2006 4:47:37 PM

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/27/2006 5:10:09 PM

use the milkshape3d selection editor - it won't render the 'back faces' these will be invisible. select them all (add face = shift + left click add/remove face = cntrl +left click) and deselect any faces that are pink when selected from the outside (these are correct) - then go to the 'Face' menu in your toolbar and select reverse faces. and voila, they're reversed.

imo, the only correct way to texture a ship is to build your texture map first and save it as a bitmap, then color it in with textures using the lines as a guide. if your texture-map is good there will be 0 distortion in it, and the only thing that will need tweaking later is your texture

um. the DDS photoshop plugin is there. TGA sucks (which is why none of freelancer's ships use it)

Transparent parts aren't done with the texture in Freelancer, it's an "Oc" node & settings in the MAT that makes the actual model part see through.

P2P is file sharing, you can download music, movies, games & programs from people all over the planet. You've seen it in the news over past couple of years, it's the one that companies are trying to ban because of copyright infringment, your basically downloading pirate copies.

I can understand the need to do the textures yourself, that's how I learn to mod games. Absorb as must of the knowledge from the forums as I can and start experimenting, I only give up after the 20th attempt fails, I then look for another way of doing it after that. Take the SUR Exporter afaik everybody else gave up on it as they couldn't get it to work, not me because atm I can produce an almost 100% fully working SUR with it, it's just that damage asignment to the collisiongroups & damage hardpoints is a bit hit & miss, but unless it's impossible with the plug-in I'll find away do get it to work.

Grab your paper by the top and turn it over so the back is now face up and your hands are now at the bottom. So your actually looking at the back of an upside down texture.

Skinning depends on how good you are at making your own custom textures. UVMapping requires you to be competant with a graphics program as your unwrapping your model, and laying it flat to then be coloured in. Tile Mapping takes parts of your model and applies them to a pre built texture, most of Freelancer was done this way, it's also how I do it as I suck big time at making my own custom textures.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Cold Void, i don't have Photoshop, so how should i use a plugin without having the main program?

In milkshape my models are shown absolutely correct, there are no black faces at all, so why should i reverse any of them???

To both of you: texturing my models i use LithUnwrap, i make a UVmap of every single Group of my model, save them as bmp, after that i save the UVmaps alltogether into the Milkshape file, then i paint the UVmaps in my paint program, then i save them as dds (i no more use tga because i can't flip the correctly), then in Milkshape i apply the painted UVmap dds files to their belonging parts of the model, then export it via the mat Exporter.

Is there anything i make wrong?

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/28/2006 9:31:06 AM

Nope your doing it right

Other texture formats only have colour depth formats to watch out for, but DDS has dozens of internal formats, unfortunately Freelancer only uses a couple of them. Make sure you use the DXT format (preferably DXT1) for your textures as this is the one thats widely used in Freelancer, and don't use MIPMAPS as your model won't use them.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Man, this is really frustrating. Now i downloaded a trial version of Photoshop CS2 and the nvidia dds plugin, but i can't save the textures as dds file!

F#§%ß...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/29/2006 4:29:16 AM

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this is the point where i REALLY need some help:

I got Photoshop CS2 trial + nvidia dds plugin, but can't open or save dds files at all.
Since i have installed the cmp Importer every time i leave Milkshape there is an error message :"Milkshape has noticed an error and must be ended."

I tried again with tga 24bit uncompressed flipped (now i have Photoshop and can flip them). In Milkshape the textures fit perfectly. In HardCMP the whole model is kind of screwed up, textures are blured from one edge of the model to the other edge, they're totally messed up. However, the mod is working, allthough there are no HPs in the cmp at all! But no engine, no thruster, no weapons, no nothing, ship is just floating in space. And still is invisible.

What the f... is going on there?????????????????????
Am i dumb or something??????

When exactly do i have to flip the tgas? BEFORE exporting the cmp, BETWEEN exporting the cmp and the mat, or AFTER exporting the cmp and mat?

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/29/2006 11:25:04 AM

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/29/2006 11:28:22 AM

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/29/2006 11:30:06 AM

Bejaymac, i'm really desperate now, i tried everything, all possible combinations of bits, files, formats, programs to use, etc., i'm not able to make my ship visible, and i have absolutely no idea what i've could done wrong.
May i send you my ms3d, cmp, mat files and textures to take a look? Or someone else? Please?

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/29/2006 1:49:52 PM

Leopard2A6 my address is in my profile, send them and I'll see what I can do.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

When you two are finished, I'll help you where I can.

Edited by - Rankor on 11/30/2006 11:01:32 AM

hey guys, i AM dumb. The greatest idiot on earth. Forgot a folders name in shiparch.ini (DA_archetype), no wonder the game never found my textures.

Pretty cool to fly a customised ship.

But yet again there's a new problem:
I made two mods, the first one works fine, the second is crashing FL when i want to launch in space, and with all other ships some mouse functions are not working. In FLMM there's a warning that the mods aren't compatible. I don't know why.

I made the second mod in the same way i made the working one, each has its own folders containig: goods.ini, engine_equip.ini, misc_equip.ini, market_ships.ini, shiparch.ini, infocard-dll file, script file, and their cmp and mat. I don't know how they can conflict each other, do you have an idea?

And is there a good tut about transparency?

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 11/30/2006 5:53:26 PM

hehe ok i'll humor you, *still.* the conflict is that both mods have goods.ini etc in them. separate mods overwrite each other using FLMM's dumb-file-copy activation method. write both your ships on the same shiparch,goods, etc.

Hm, I thought its something like that.

But that would mean the different ships etc are ONE mod, and can't be activated seperately, am i right?

Sure you know that when you install the FLMM there are some "default" mods included, about a dozen or so. They CAN be activated seperately, so why the difference between them and my mods?
Is it because they're scripted and mine aren't?

Next problem: mod is working, ship is flying, HPs are good, textures are good, but...: Two groups of my ships model aren't shown in game. The other parts of the ship are visible, so the textures are definitively working. And in HardCMP all the groups are visible, just in game these two groups are missing (always the same two groups). What else instead of the textures could cause this error???

Is there a tut about using UTF Editor? Got some problems with transparency too

Edited by - Leopard2A6 on 12/3/2006 5:47:30 AM