Tagos, when you make a huge post that constantly insults us, calls us liars, and puts us down, frankly you get what you deserve.

Example 1: "To pretend that it's somehow "unnecessary" and that a 3d cockpit is unnecessary just makes you (as in the board regulars) seem overly defensive."

Nobody is pretending anything. Everybody (and I'm not exaggerating, 100%) who has played the game feels the same way.

Example 2: "Just admit to yourselves that it's no longer a space sim in any meaningful sense. A design decision was taken to dumb it down for a mass market and make it a diabloesque rpg-lite with a ship as your alter-ego, with some twitchy arcade style combat thrown in."

Here you've insulted 100% of the people who have played it and also prejudge the combat to be "twitchy arcade style". Otherwise known as prejudiced.

Example 3: "So long as people are expecting an Elite experience they are going to be disappointed at all the missing features and trying to convince us that radars and 3d cockpits controlled by a pov joystick hat don't matter is simply not going to fly."

Ok, so you don't have a 3D cockpit (which probably isn't even finalized) and you can't look left or right. BIG DEAL. You get so much more with FL. Hundreds of places to explore. Thousands of trade routes to exploit. Dozens of factions to stab in the back. Something so cosmetic just doesn't compare to the gameplay it has to offer.

Example 4: "And making laughable claims about how radars and cockpits aren't useful features just accentuates the feeling that there is something to hide about FL and this site is nothing more than a marketing arm of Microsoft rather than a place to get real information on what FL is, strengths and weaknesses etc."

More put downs.

Example 5: "As an aside - you are not welcoming new members by insisting old topics aren't discussed. That's an absolute classic way to say, "F Off newbs we've been here for years and you do it our way or walk." New members want to discuss things themselves, even if they've been discussed before. The draconian management of the board does not encourage the development of a broader community that then spreads good word of mouth."

Because 90% of the time the "old topic" is just complaining about the lack of joystick support. It was locked previously because it degenerated into flaming, much like this thread has. They are locked now because it is irrelevant anyway, oh except for that joystick thread which is still open.

Example 6: "endless thread-closing does not do any marketing favours and certainly does not foster any sense of community. It comes across as yet another game forum dominated by a hard-core clique unwilling or unable to let the forum grow and change organically as membership changes."

Endless thread-closing? Just because the admins are excersing their legal and moral right to close threads which they deem inappropriate, which frankly doesn't even happen that often? Please, stop with the put downs. Oh, I agree there is a clique on TLR, if you include everybody who posts here... New people join all the time, and some stay, and that's totally fine with me. Even a few people who were (and some still are) doubtful about FL as you are stayed. Some have been swayed by our arguments, some have not. But they still post. Why is that?

Example 7: "Anyway, my many pennies worth, offered in a spirit of friendly observation as I still hope FL is going to be an enjoyable game that will spark a big community of fans I can be a part of."

And the reversal. Suddenly, you're playing all friendly after insult after insult. And to top that, you suddenly want to be a part of the "clique"!

Sorry, I've been ranting, time to get back on topic...

Sorry, this thread is kind of degenerating fast. Anyway, theres a lot of reasons to buy FL. Some I've mentioned in my other post, like exploration, trading, and politics within the game. These are the three key features IMO that will attract most of the people. For example, when you played Privateer (I'm assuming you have) what was most important? Did you like the atmosphere, the missions, being able to trade, explore different places? Going to bars and such? Or was it all about combat with your hands firmly on a joystick? For me it was the gameplay itself. The universe was great, as was the storyline. Truly being free to do what you wanted, and having real options was great. FL recreats that, and does it even better to an extent. If all you really care about is combat, then FL might not be the game for you. Of course you could try the demo and really like it; I did at DA and now with the PR beta, but your experiance may differ.

Anyway, sorry about misunderstanding before. It sounded like you wanted us to tell you why you should buy the game, then you counterpoint and then have to "convince" you which I am not prepared to do.

Question: What is the purpose of this web site folks?

Answer: To provide a place for people to find out information, post their opinions on a variety of subjects, and if they choose, become an active part of the dedicated, die-hard group of people who are passionate about the Lancers series. Lately, it revolves around the apparent upcoming release of a long awaited title Freelancer.

Counter-answer: It's not a place to say things that would upset others. People are allowed to have differing opinions on a subject, in fact that is very much encouraged. (unlike a lot of other forums I've seen) Just concentrate on nailing down your views without having to step all over others views along the way. It's an art form. Done right, it shows some serious skills!

If you have something to add to a discussion without a criticism of others or their opinions, then by all means have at it. Saying something intended to belittle others views or simply target people with personal insults then you should expect unpleasant repercussions. ( DUH! )

We welcome all newcomers with open arms...just don't bite off any extremities right away. Most are too bitter for human consumption anyway.

Let's just all take a deep breath and move on.

We've been told that there will be a demo available so if you haven't decided whether to buy the game or not you can download the demo and try it out. I'm getting tired of people coming around and complaining because DA left out this or that element that "needs" to be in the game. They can't please everyone. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. If you want to criticize the game, go ahead, but shouldn't we wait to try the game first, especially when everyone who has played it thinks it's great.

Most people here are getting excited that the game will be out soon, and we're mostly being upbeat about it. Is it any wonder that when you come around complaining and insulting people there is a negative reaction?

Let's get those missiles ready to destroy the universe!!

I wonder, if just one posting raised such a heated discussion (and, if I'm not mistaken, FL release deadline is still ahead), what's gonna happen during the last days? I myself feel heated up hearing so much and seeing nothing so far. Darn, I'm looking forward to seeing this forum develop into what SL forum is now. If all the things said about FL are true (frankly, not everything appeals to me - but I can't judge before I try this game), we'll have a whole lot of things to discuss, heh?

Amen ZLO!

Trade routes, hidden artifacts, obscure planets, hard to find bases, black holes, hard to find jump "ho's," unknown anamolies, mission tactics, ship types (and which one is better and why), Ship loadouts, which hardpoints are better and why, which guns are the best, etc. etc. etc....

Okay....breathe...breathe....

I came to this forum with an open mind wishing to hear a rallying voice to the Freelancer banner and I thank those whom did just that, I enjoyed reading you're insightful postings and wished each and every post had the same spirit. But I cannot ignore the fact that my first post on this forum almost descended into a flame war Twice! I came here undecided, if it hadn't been for those of you of a more mature demeanour I would have left feeling disinterested in Freelancer. Please if this is how newbies are treated word of mouth is going to damage rather than help Freelancer. I will Post the same topic again soon, please For the good of Freelancer as a whole I asked that it does not take the same path as this one.

and why are you going to post it again? what good would that do? what are you trying to do ? ruin the lovvvveee for freelancer....

Snowyhands wrote: "and why are you going to post it again? what good would that do? what are you trying to do ? ruin the lovvvveee for freelancer...."

This is a lesion that MUST be learnt quickly and well.

Hmm, well the thread was fine until tagos made his post and from there it was rather OT. Still, another thread is not needed. We were just, having a side discussion

No it's not a very good introduction to the site is it. But if your going to provide constructive critisism of TLR, using words like laughable and instigating disruption amoung the ranks by making broad statements that Mods are telling new members to rack off because they close redundant topics. Well that's just not on.

I personally welcome all the new members, the percentage of you seem like a great bunch and I look forward to many discussions with you all.

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Please if this is how newbies are treated word of mouth is going to damage rather than help Freelancer.

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We treat everyone with respect, either a newbie or a regular. The only thing we are getting tired of is to defend the decisions DA made (leaving out the joystick amd maybe the 3d cockpit and radar) over and over again. I feel that we are defending DA, I eman, if you have 10 topics all going about the same thing then it'll get a bit irritating everynow and then.

Last thing about your quote: did you ever NOT bought a game because the forumusers weren't nice to you?

That's all, let's get back on topic.

@Sai-ku: yes, it is very unfortunate that your debut posts had almost turn into flame wars. But as long as you didn't start it and people are not yelling at you, than it's not your fault. Anyway, if you don't like the way a thread is going, remember you can always delete it! It's your post, and if you don't like the way people are dishonoring it, make them all go away !

I have made 4 (now 5) posts on this Forum, thus it is impossable for me to have 10 topics of any type!

I never asked you defend any of the decisions that DA have made I simply asked what I thought was a simple question.