Pk-Liberty Issue On All Servers

Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:10 pm by admiral_tolwyn

below is a pic of some dialoug that i cut and pasted from 3 seperate screenshots, and put togeather for easy reading and shorter downloading time (and less headaches). to get the point across that this could have happened on ANY server, i have censored all names besides mine, and all references to clans. it looks like crap but i think it's better than 3 full-sized seperate pics.

Click here

what your seeing:

im flying my eagle around in new york, and hook up with this guy for some pirating at a jump gate. when we meet face to face, he starts firing at me, and telling me that he hates everyone in my clan...i dont want to die, so i go with my instinct and blow him up. he comes back and i try to be nice and give him a second chance, but he attacks me again. i fire a couple more shots at his dragon, and he's (still alive) in a pile of twisted metal that a justice 1 could take out. he types "hold" and i let him live. after this we become decent friends apart from the fact that he hates my clan.

but what if he had attacked me again? and took screenshots the whole time? he could make it look like i was pking him and hunting him down. this has happened to me, and to friends of mine, before. a newb doesnt like us for some reason, so he tries to frame us as newb killers and evil malicious ppl. if a newb gets up to lvl 5 and buys a patriot, he can go hunting other newbs (or even stronger ppl like me in this incident), and then frame them as pkers.

i dunno what but id appreciate it if someone could come up with an intelligent soultion to this problem. even if i was never in new york, the guy could have attacked a lower lvl clan member that was still in the system, and framed him instead.

Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:32 pm by Pinger

Its always going to happen, until high lvl's think about where they sit in NY. I have to have my ship above manhattan as I admin the server i use. But my player characters are rarely in NY or outside Manhattan. If they are its to find out if someone is a Pk'er or just an annoying idiot looking for attention.

Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:38 pm by Justinian

sounds like a pickle there...I never - and I mean never - keep any of my high power characters in NY anymore since I first read this. Granted - I do have a Valkyrie in there, and it is good enough to take on most (not all) pk'ers that come around. I use it to protect ppl I like...ppl in my Guild, etc.

The way you put it did kinda scare me.

Justinian

Hail Ceasar! Leader of the Free Peoples of the Holy Roman Empire, defender to the lower ranked and faith, lover of monkies (but not those DAMN DIRTY APES!). God Save Ceasar - or the screamer behind him will! Hail Ceasar!!!

Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:23 pm by Regulator

I guess what you could do instead is take a screen shot of him attacking you. If PvP is illegal in Liberty, then he is breaking that rule and should receive the same treatment that he is trying to get put on you.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website

Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:25 pm by Gung_Ho

On Calgary and on the old Browclops server 90% of the formal dueling takes place at manhattan. The gravitation of high level characters to low level areas is a natural and logical one, as it is nice when you are planning to equip new characters with money/equipment etc. It also may be due to a character needing to show off. You see this same thing on every MMRPG in existance. High Level players stay near low level environments.

However, on a server where pvp in liberty is outlawed, duels just takes place somewhere else. Theta for example..

I don't see a problem with no-pvp rulings in liberty. It's the admin's choice really. I do, however, keep at least one high level character in NY on every server I play on. I also keep one at Gamma/Alpha.

Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:04 pm by Regulator

The Liberty Rule is useless, unless you have a really bad noob killing problem. Elite is the only server that I know of that has any remote chance of benefiting from it, but I doubt they would even have any problems with no Liberty Rule.

The primary effect of the Liberty Rule is merely more time spent argueing over rule breakers and trying to enforce it and less time spent playing the game. Plus, players get banned just for killing a player in the Liberty Systems. That is a waste. More time should be spent on cheaters that actually do cause harm in the game.

It is annoying to me when people complain that they got killed in the Liberty System and call it a problem. People are not victims simply because they were in NY when they got Pked. It hurts you no more at Manhattan, than it does in other systems. The problem is only a psychological illusion caused by the rule.

Gung Ho,
Browclops did have a high concentration of players in the Liberty System due to having no Libery Rule. I don't think any of them were trying to show off or pick on noobs. Noob killing was very rare and never a problem. NY is a common place for everyone to do events and socialize. Everyone including noobs could participate in the events and talk with more experienced players. We weren't Manhattan campers or Station Toads, we were just a very social group.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website

Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:24 am by Gung_Ho

Oh I agree 100% as far as Brow's goes. PKing was never really a problem. It occured often enough, but no one seemed to whine like they do on other servers lol. We rarely saw Pking of noobs though.

The same social environment exists on other servers though, in spite of the no-lib-pk rule. It just takes place somewhere else.

Personally I don't see much of a point to the rule either, but it doesn't really effect me in the least. If I want to duel someone in NY we can just go out of sight somewhere where no one coud prove we were even shooting each other. :p

I don't think we're ever going to be able to reproduce the brow culture, the best we can hope to do is find somewhere else with a different and yet equally entertaining vibe. Maybe browclopsia will get there, who knows?

Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:07 pm by Frobozz

Here's my $.02, Just my personal opinion:

NO PvP in NY. Why? It's the Noobie spawn location, they see others do it they will too.
The not-so-new players notice things like player deaths and judge the server full of
a-holes if they see lots of NY players dying. NY should NOT be a hostile environment!
Even death threats, interfering with bar missions and ramming players not allowed.

For the rest of Liberty, a level based system. No PvP to or by players under Level 16.
At level 13, you can get a decent ship and at Level 16 you can buy class 6 guns.
Level 16 restriction does NOT prohibit consensual Dueling until 1st shield fall, ONLY player death.
Requiring Dulists to go all the way to Galileo just encourages surreptitious rule breaking, as pointed out.

Even then, NO Dock Camping at all in Liberty! Perhaps a 2k safe zone around any dockable?

Problem with all this is it's complexity. What is really needed is a mod or patch that lets
Admin turn PvP on/off on a system by system basis.

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:05 pm by Regulator

Good points.

I think having ANY form of a liberty rule is too complex. Like you said, they need to be able to turn PvP off in NY. Still, I don't agree with the need to do that. It is a noob spawn place, but it still can be hostile. NPC's are hostile there, just like they are anywhere else.

"Keep it reasonable!" is the bomb ass rule that works best. There is no need to ban a person for something stupid, when they aren't even causing any problems. The only rule we need is to keep things reasonable. No excessive noob killing, dock camping, etc. etc. No need to make a rule for each thing. If the admin thinks a player is being unreasonable, he can warn them or ban them. This also gives him more power to control his server and decreases the collateral damage caused by technical violations.

What is ramming? Is that just bumping into other players? How does that hurt other players?

The Liberty Rule just seems unreasonable to me and kinda irritates me when I think of it. I'm getting a little pissed off about it right now. He he. But, now that I said that, I am laughing.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:32 pm by Regulator

One more thing. I've never had many problems with people Pking me too much. And when they do, it never ever pisses me off. Even when I was a noob I had players try to rob me, but I didn't get pissed when I got blown up. It is just a challenge and makes the game way better for me. I guess that is why I am against the Libery Rule so much.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:54 pm by Frobozz

What is ramming? Is that just bumping into other players? How does that hurt other players?

Try doing a bar job while someone keeps ramming you. The NPCs have a great time shooting you up
while you're being battered around. Once your shields are down, those collisions can knock off
your weapons, and the NPC's finish you off! Can't leave without a hit to your rep, so the a-hole
has you in a headlock. To me, it don't matter if he didn't fire a shot!

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:53 pm by DaVoid

Regulator
Lt. Commander
posted 07-08-2003 22:04 CET
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Liberty Rule is useless, unless you have a really bad noob killing problem. Elite is the only server that I know of that has any remote chance of benefiting from it, but I doubt they would even have any problems with no Liberty Rule.

Even I would hope NEO/NoTec would have enough common sense not to PK or dock rape noobs in Liberty space if the no PvP rule was removed.

~ DaVoid, Expert Star Diver

Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:22 pm by Frobozz

No. No. No. Look, it's the mid-level idiots level 12 or so with shiny new Defenders
who are the ones killing Newbies for jollies if not told not to. Sheesh.

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:25 am by BlitzRaven

Supity.

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:09 pm by Regulator

Now I understand the ramming issue. I have never had that happen to me yet, I guess since if have never played much in a Libery Rule enforce Liberty System. I did have a player trying to kill me during a mission while I was a level 1, but he was about level 10 or so. I thought it was funny, but if it was a persistant problem, then it wouldn't be so cool. When you think of the lower level players picking on noobs it makes the Liberty Rule seem more valid. But still, I am a firm believer in the "Keep it Reasonable" rule. That rule covers all problems and does not punish activities that are not problems.

I think a better way for a level 1 noob to handle a level 12 (or so)that is picking on them is to ask for help. The level 12 would get his ass handed to him.
One more point, you are only a noob for a short amount of time, then you yourself can go around punishing level 12's that are attacking level 1's. As long as the punisher doesn't get carried away like I have seen before, such as getting the player banned because of a single noob-death incident.

Regulator
USB/GOV Website

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