Well, if my $0.02 matters...

If you're not playing the game the same way it is installed and running on the server you're "cheating" regardless of how you want to put it it all just semantics anyways. You know the old saying, 6 of one or a half dozen of the other. If you really want to fly a new ship or use new guns you can always fire it up in SP and have at it, there is no good reason for doing it on a public server (period).

I really don't get the cheats in the first place, you can make a legit million in what, 3 hours? Maybe less if you don't chat with the other players, but then why go online? As for the ships and weapons, a fully loaded very heavy fighter might as well be invulnerable, with a class 10 shield you can almost sit still in many systems without the AI ever getting through your shields. If you're just bored with ship you can allways *gasp* downgrade, only person stopping you from doing that is you.

Anyway, I guess I'm preaching to the choir here so I'll stop, just one quick opinion question...

If another player is using a money cheat and you happen to catch them while they are at level 38 but still flying a Starflier with two Justice MKI lasers, is it wrong to stomp on them... repeatedly... until they get sick of the server and leave? I hope not because it sure is fun to "ruin" the game for them (for a change)

*points at Victor* N00b .... : P
*hehe*

3 hrs is a pretty easy lv 38, if ya do it right (trading, methinks).

As for VHF w/ lv10 shields being invulnerable to NPC attack... ehh... no way! *L* Try some missions in the border worlds. True, Liberty and Bretonia forces can just about about be ignored, but the Kusari can dent you pretty well, and Rheinland can in fact kill you (if you're intent on mostly sitting still and not using any bots/batts). Then there are the Outcasts, BH, Corsairs, etc. Some you can ignore a bit, most you HAVE to avoid at least some their fire or face death : )

Missions against Hessians in the 240k range (without backup) can be a bit hard (their weaps are strong against lv10 shields). Missions against the GMG are a HECK of a lot harder than they sound, but I'm guessing that's because of their weapon refire rate (and that they're in Hawks (I think?)). Even ~140k missions can be a challenge if you don't use mines/missiles. They just hit too much, despite dodging like mad.

And, in an unrelated point: N00b = ignorant .. and being ignorant is no crime, as it just means you've not been exposed to certain information. Look it up, if you doubt me : ) Then ponder this: Most of the innovation in scientific advancement has been from neophytes (another form of ignorance). Why? Because they don't "know" that it "can't be done that way", so they try ; ) Now, if you're an idiot... well then, that's another matter : PP

Lvl 10 shields are great and all, but even in Liberty they are not invulnerable, especially if you rile up the Police(Law). You can sit for awhile, but they'll keep coming with greater numbers and eventually bring your shields down. I know from personal experience.

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Bar patron: "You some kind of Nooby?"
Trent: "Uuuh, Huuuh"

Mechwarrior 4 went largely without cheats for about a year, then someone discovered how to pack full armor, weapons, heat sinks, and equipment into a mech without breaking the tonnage limit. Before long, this was everywhere.

Then, a genius named Jehosephat2k wrote a couple of shield programs. I have VengeanceShield on my server right now. It runs as a seperate program, and scans players' variants. When it finds an impossible variant, it kicks the player (and lets the other players know why he was kicked). The best thing about it is that it doesn't generate lag or use up system resources.

It would be great if someone set up a similar program or mod for Freelancer that scanned accounts for impossible loadouts. You might not catch all of the cheaters, but you'll raise the bar on cheating.

As long as cheaters are able to cheat, they will -

I would have to add that the concept of "cheat freindly" servers is a fine idea, but there is a severe lack of information on freelancer and it's servers. do a simple google search and only a few freelancer sites appear, that's how I found this one.

I feel cheating is justifyable - it's a game, and if anyone seen the matrix, if you can cheat, cheat - it's about entering an enviroment and having total control over every aspect of it. if it annoys you. don't play in that server. for every cheat freindly server, there should be a non-cheat server.

I don't think anyone gets any extra cool points for getting to level 38 without someone handing you 50 million dollars and a few hints on how to find the jump hole to get to the eagle. or saber, or whatever your looking for.

people like helping others for some reason, and if a cheater has a cargo hold of 800 cause he cheated to make a ton of cash fast, and he turns around and gives you a bunch of it cause simply put, there's nothing else to spend money on then that's a sign that the game physics itself are lacking in basic needs of the playing population at large.

it goes without saying, if I can't fly a battleship, but others can, I'm sure someone is going to say "dude, here's how you get a battleship"

If it makes you happy, then smile.

Melio: good points. I have no problem with "Cheat" or "Mod" servers, as long as "Cheaters" and "Modders" stick to those servers.

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Bar patron: "You some kind of Nooby?"
Trent: "Uuuh, Huuuh"

I think you missed the point Hellif, or at least the key phrase. Never claimed that you *were* invincible, just that you might as well be. An exageration, but only a failed attempt to point out the fact that using a cheat for money or "power" or anything else to make a very easy game easier is a joke. For me the AI, regardless of location, quantity or the mission difficulty, poses little to no challenge even before I have achieved "the best" there is. Bring a friend or two with you and it's even easier. A human player, on the other hand, can be a very fun and challenging opponent, but if 20-25% of the players are cheating...

(I'll assume you can complete the last sentance with something other than "n00b"

Melio, I can see your point. However, when money, equipment, ships, and even reputation come so easily, it is also not treasured by the player. Thus, as you say someone would just turn around and give another player the $50 mil he made in a day or so... As the saying goes: easy come, easy go.

Agreed Thorkild, a 'loadout scanner' would be a great thing to have. I think the important thing is, as you said, to raise the bar on cheating. At present, anyone can download a cheat, or change a few lines in a simple text file. Make that more difficult, and we get only the serious cheaters. And of course, a serious cheater is not likely to have done all that bypassing work for a few cheap thrills at the Manhattan docking ring.

I wouldn't have a problem if the cheaters would just stay away from the docking rings, and away from our duels...

Yes anyone can download a cheat or mod or whatever you want to call it. But the worst thing is that they can download it right from this site. Aint that special.

Just a few of my thoughts...
I think what we need is a 'spectator' mode, where by if we're not playing, we have the option to take the view-point of any other player. Countless people have been caught hacking/modding/cheating in other games this way.
Then also having a 'demo' mode so we can actually record what we see would be nice. And eventually enable punk-buster or something equivalent so that what the actual player sees is captured.

At least we don't have to worry about wall hacks in freelancer (unless they are long-range >5k or whatever), or an aim-guide hack, but I dare say it won't be too long until cheaters have a auto-aim hack. Especially if any ladders/ranking system is set up.

I think the problem is that you don't have to make a hack to cheat. You just need to edit, or use someone else's editing work. It's entirely too easy.

The mods up for download are just that, mods. The moment someone uses them on an unmodded server they become cheats. I'm glad they are here for downloads, as I play on my own (LAN) server with them all the time - LOVE the rebalance mod! It's really Msoft's fault that the entire fricken game is contained client-side, and there were no provisions for detecting changes. I have no idea what they were thinking. They somehow chose to ignore the last ten years of multiplayer development. Even Quake wasn't this wide open.

Patch 1.1 helps, but I sure hope they can do better than that. I suspect though that the fix will be a third party program, as with everything Microsoft.

Yah, mebbe they can sneak in some kinda checksum software in a client patch so that it can detect config changes... And it would also send false tests to throw off the hackers that watch the packet data and responses, etc...

I have noticed a new form of "Cheating" some fool logs onto the server in a moded starflier... Hacked justice Mk 1's with extended range and damage, uber thruster "16k instant speed" then they start to attack other players around Manhattan. Once someone fights back, they screenshot themselves being attacked and send it in to get the legitimate player banned.
Sadly I have fallen for this trick a few times.” Before I realized the ploy" Now I hang back and advise everyone to stay docked till the fool gets board... but it brings all game play around liberty to a stand still... I have managed to screenshot a few cheaters admitting to their use of hacks, but when it’s so easy to start a new account, cheat, get banned and just start a new account again...
It is frustrating to say the least. My Moral outrage sometimes gets the better of me, I have acted badly in the past "Punishing liberty pk'rs & cheaters who attack other players" now I know better...
But now something new has happened to me, I have been playing on [OGzr Geezers in Space I have all 5 chars set up with good gear and 1 I use as a "bank" I transfer all my extra gear to this one char to hold, then when I see a new player join I offer them some gear and a little cash to get them started out. Now I'm sitting there transferring gear, and some guy named Kyle direct msgd me saying: Stop changing chars so much... I figured he was some new player who thought I was cheating in some way, so I told him what I was doing, then went to log my bank char again (I had already ejected a bunch of gear before he sent the msg) but as I logged Freelancer crashed to the desktop. Now every time I try and log onto geezers server the game CTD's... I can join other servers with no trouble, its only geezers that crashes. I'm at a lost as to why this happens, If anybody knows a way to fix this please let me know! While small Geezers are one of the best servers I have played on so far. As far as I know transferring gear to another of your chars is not cheating, it may be an exploit... but the gear was played for with money I earned legitimately and I'm not hording the gear all for myself. I pass it out for free, only asking that the person return the favor to another new player (pay it forward) This I hope will increase the number of people interested in the game, as well as offset the few **** wads who think its fun to attack newB's as they launch from Manhattan.
Meanwhile I am playing on the Elite server. Good admin and deputy staff there, but very low-grade cargo on the transports... It’s hard to pirate a decent living from the ai there. Help me get back on Geezers pleas!


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