On Cheating, Its General Prevelance, and Its Justification

Sun May 11, 2003 8:49 pm by avatarmonkey

First let me say that I've been playing Freelancer online now for about 4 weeks and I am impressed. Achieving "the best" seems to be the goal with the point of the game being the process of getting there rather than the actual endpoint. However I noticed that many players I had never seen before were level 38 despite the fact that I regullarly played on these servers.

Originally I thought they were superior players but I have been recently enlightened. I had a rather long discussion with three of the cheaters on a server and their entertainment sources, and their justification.

Firstly on open public servers it seems like anywhere between 1 and 5 cheaters will be playing at one time. Most of these are people who like to manufacture millions and hand them out and others are ones who like to kill everyone who comes out of Manhatten in a Nomad Battleship or an invulnerable eagle that goes 900 velocity. They seem to comprise about 60% of the cheaters on a given server.

The other 20-40% seem to be more the hugh heffner of cheaters. These are the kind one can discuss with and where any of my citations come from. First apparently one is not cheating if you have items that cannot be bought in the game, such as nomad lasers or level 10 gravitron shields. Also one is not cheating if you have a nomad battleship or the osirus. One is only "cheating" when a player is invulnerable or has unlimited ammunition. Getting impossible equipment is "modding" where as changing the statistics for certain weapons or shields is "hacking." I am told it is necessary to distinguish between these behaviors as only "cheating" should be punished whereas "modding" or "hacking" on a unmodified open server should be allowed.

I noticed these people before but generally ignored them as they didn't bother other players and generally were just fooling around. However recently the total percent of players using these techniques seems to have skyrocketed. I am bothered since it always seemed to me that the point of the game was to attain these "best" items through the game. Once you have them, the game is over, there is nothing more to get.

The main problem is there is no way to eliminate the problem on your average server.
1)The sysop is often absent or unreachable.
2)There is no votekick function.
3)There is no automated scanning for impossible items.

If anyone wants to add thoughts to this please do. I'm interested to know why people use the "modding," "hacking," and "cheating" devices in this game specifically.(As opposed to a FPS where the point of the game is to win, not to 'journey' as it were)

Mon May 12, 2003 1:17 am by sandorski

Modding and hacking, IMO, is kinda lame. If a server is "open", then it should "allow" the weapons/shields to be attained in the normal fashion(s). By allowing Users to edit their files, you merely give a certain portion of the gaming community an advantage over others, one shouldn't be forced to muck around with files offline in order to acheive balance online.

================================
Bar patron: "You some kind of Nooby?"
Trent: "Uuuh, Huuuh"

Mon May 12, 2003 2:33 am by Natrunner

Excellent post avatar. You actually had something to say. Interesting discussion indeed.

I came. I saw. I conquered. And sometimes get conquered.
"I'm Natrunner, I don't really run TLR but I do have an understanding with those that do."

Mon May 12, 2003 4:22 am by Chicago247_admin

I am happy to report that after about only three days of being online, with an average of five concurrent players at a time, we have only ONE suspect cheater. Requiring the players to email us with their player names for the passwords all but elimates most cheaters. Most cheater will to lurk in the shadows, and having to email someone for the passwords brings then into the light, so to speak. Yes, I realize that this will not stop all, but we shall be do our best, with other players assistance, to elimate cheaters on our humble server, Chicago 24 - 7. In any case, thanks for the research, it is interesting and informative.

Mon May 12, 2003 5:40 am by GIVEUPTHEGOODS

if you got really good fps skills you can beat up peeps regardless.. reminds me alot of quake- these newbies come in the server all wallhacking and it's so obvious.. but you can usually smackdown the fatboytoys with a blaster and drop guns on thier head and watch them hit the walls lol so far as the cheaters go- they're always gonna be in multiplayer net games- seen alot of whining on this board about it- but you guys don't realize that's just gaming on the internet and your blind if you think a server can be cheat free.. microsoft games are notorious for having full fledged hacks out that never get patched- and the freelancer dedicated server has lots of issues to fix before it's even stable.. once the servers can at least stay up and quit lagging everyone out- it'll be up to the admins to police it and the community will have to produce the anticheats (punkbuster is the only anticheat that works without a decent admin).. can't really decide what's worse- a cheater who acts like he's legit or a newbie admin (I used to admin 2 cs servers with adminmod and csguard + perlscripts to generate the stats, it's alot of time invested to keep a server runnin smoothly with regulars- I actually solved alot of problems by giving admin kick/ban privileges to a few experienced peeps I trusted that played alot.. and I only banned if there was proof not some newb crying cheat- ended up with servers full of good regulars).. I actually don't mind seeing guys in nomad battleships and crazy ships you can't get in the game yet.. these guys are just having fun with thier skills and are'nt hiding the fact they are hacking the game.. it's the peanutheads who try comming off as legit you gotta weed out

Mon May 12, 2003 6:18 am by Mr_nStuff

That's one really long sentence nStuff. heh

Anywho.. I would hardly call editing the starter ship "skillz"... These newbs want to show off their skillz.. Why don't they create some new missions or a new star system or something. Editing files to change the starter ship, that's just a cancer. It spreads to more lamers, and threatens to ruin the game for everyone.

It's not the neeto battleship.. It's the fact that they are stomping on the game for their own amusement. And it requires about as much skill as downloading a mail bomber and using it.

Dunno though.

Tue May 13, 2003 6:34 am by avatarmonkey

I tend to agree pretty much with all that has been said here. Especially the post telling me how great my post was...right on....

Actually the first time I encountered a nomad battleship on a server I was rather amused. It was a guy I knew to have earned his money and he just decided that since he had "won" he now wanted to explore other aspects of play. This I sympathize with as I often feel the same way myself but don't have the patience to alter the game even though I figured out how it was done.

However, the second time I saw a nomad battleship the player decided he was "elite" and was going to show people who was boss. Unfortunately they have no armor and he wasn't so good at fighting so he got annoyed quickly by regulars having fun killing him and left. The third time I saw one it was invincible and doing the exact same thing except here there was no recourse. You just had to pretend New York didn't exist or stop playing to keep enjoying the game.

My main problem with the "hacked," "modded" or whatever ships and items is that it essentially makes the relatively wasted time spent attaining "the best" even more wasted, especially when the player just wants to torment other players. I admit much of my aggravation is having my status as "cock of the walk" so to speak taken away by someone who has essentially taken steroids.

While I have no real solutions beyond regular admin policing I'm just angry I guess. Good show to the admin who set up the policy of emailing in passwords. Much like "confirmation emails" helped solve many membership problems on message boards and locked doors stop teenagers from stealing my stuff so does requiring email passwords for a server account. It tends to weed out anyone who does not want to invest time in this specific server and on this specific character. It also gives you a very good record of the amount of people coming and going and you can rather quickly tell if someone is making multiple accounts and very helpfully coordinate any formation of "clans" or groups of some sort.

Tue May 13, 2003 8:14 am by SnowCrash

There's one main reason why mods/cheats/hacks are cancer for FL: they lag the already unstable servers and prevent smooth play for the legit players.

Most of us bought this game the week it was released...we spent our money on this thing, and I have no respect for the lamers who ty to ruin the MP experience just so that they can "explore new avenues of play" or be the "best"....total and utter BS which has already sunk Elite once and a good number of other servers for good (AC2 being the latest casualty)

"True friends stab you in the front"

Tue May 13, 2003 7:28 pm by avatarmonkey

Good point. I did completely forget about the massive crash of death aspect to cheating. For this reason alone sever admins should be more careful. Server crashes = not good for anything, especially the computer.

Wed May 14, 2003 4:06 am by CipheR1

I find it very disturbing that you would automatically assume that anyone who has a Nomad weapon is cheating. Yes, those with Nomad ships are, but I have picked up many Nomad weapons after blowing up their ship in combat. So this makes me a cheater ? Just because you can't buy a weapon doesn't mean you can't obtain it without cheating. Don't know where to get a level 10 shield ? Try Planet Crete. I don't mind complaints about cheating, and I don't care for people who ruin my gaming experience by cheating, but lets get the facts straight before we start pointing fingers guys.

Wed May 14, 2003 7:35 am by Panzer

What was pointed out was the the player was using Nomad LASERS, which are not dropped by the Nomads and you can ONLY equip them via cheating. I am not sure about the Lvl 10 graviton shields. There are Level 10 shields you can buy in the game. But I do not recall if they are Positron or Molcular <spelling, I know...> shields. Lvl 10 graviton shields may therefore also be a non player equiped item, without modding that is.

Wed May 14, 2003 10:50 am by general_han_solo

I encountered something like this on Seattle based 24/7 where a player has an invulnerable shield and 8 nomad lasers(not the ones you get off of nomads but modded) that would kill you in one shot.

Then there was a player who loved to shoot you from extreme range as you leave a dock over and over gain for spite. no avoidng the shots, no way to defend yourselves.

If you cant play the game without cheating then you really have no skill at all.

Ca=uses cheats. I think he had an eagleor Sabre. but none of those can hold the ammount of guns he had. Mod ship perhaps?
Thrindel_Sev uses cheats and likes to give away shields that, when used with a mod allows other to achieved invulerablilty. He also gave Ca those lasers.

Basically what ruined that server for me.

If you can't duel or protect yourself without cheating your a pussy.

I have nothing agains using a mod that lets you fly a ship with the skin of a fighter from Star Wars or something like that. But having a ship that has more gun ports then the 3 heavy fighters BUILT into the game makes it a cheat.

Edited by - general_han_solo on 14-05-2003 11:52:32

Wed May 14, 2003 3:28 pm by Argonus

I ran into one last night...

Had a Saber...Invulnerable at that....with at least 10 Nomad Lasers (as said before, not the ones that drop)

These are LAMER WEAPONS.

I had some of my Argonian Ryders sitting in orbit at Manhattan, working on renaming one of our new members....He launched...everyone started blowing up....we were all "WTF just happened?"

Then one of my Ryders got the bright idea to screenshot his weaps.....at least 10 Nomad Lasers.

This guy (Went originally by the name of Vox) has been apparantly targeting unpassworded servers for no reason. Who pissed in his cheerios to make him want to ruin the game for everyone else.

It's people like him that make me want to storm DA's dev office and stand over them with a bazooka until they finish the patch...lol

Thu May 15, 2003 2:58 am by general_han_solo

Yep those the lasers. They can hit you from long range and instakill.

Thrindel_Sev does that on seattle based 24/7 and Ca as wel.

Thu May 15, 2003 5:46 pm by knife11

What About the guy that has beaten the game but he doesn't want to fly around in an eagle or titan...So he mods a different ship so that is can be a strong as a eagle or titan but it better fits his style???
I'm supprised that the RES hasn't done some of this them likeing the rheinland ships and all.

I think that modding with in reason is fun and okay as long as you don't make your self unstopable and runaround killing people. It's kind of like driving a "ten second car" from fast and furious...Freelancer doesn't have many fun high level ships...I think it would be neat to run around in a crusader with lvl 10 guns and sheilds...Like i said though with in reason.

Besides I think it's obvious when someone is makeing an ass of them selves and they should be Banned anyway.

just my 0.02

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