Argh / Chips OpenSP Alternative

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:27 pm by opwnageo

I just stumbled upon Arghs and Chips Open Singleplayer Alternative ...

The below paragraphs are the sections that are of interest to me:

1. The main reason why other coders have stumbled and fallen trying to code "true" Total Conversion mods is that the "vanilla" Missions are heavily integrated with Mbases.ini.
This, in turn, is heavily integrated with Solararch.ini, various Equipment INI files, AI files, and other things.

2. This is the first step towards getting rid of everything in Freelancer entirely for a "true" Total Convresion. What this basically does is delete all of the INI references in the Missions, and sets them up to simply "complete" after players reach X amount of money (set in ptough.ini). So players start SP at Level Two, and skip from Level Two to Level Four, and so forth. This may seem a little whacky, but it's the only way to do this that doesn't involve a DLL hack like Xerx's initial OpenSP mod, and it works just fine.

3. Basically... now that the first (and most crucial) link in the chain has been severed... it should be possible for Total Conversion creators to completely empty Mbases, Solararch, the pilots_story.ini, and many other areas of unnecessary content

My questions are along the lines of how could I sever the other links that he speaks of, how would I cut the links so that I could basically start to remove items such as weapons and ships and shields without causing MP to crash, and would I still be able to use npcs in the MP game.

This would be of tremendous help to me as a base framework for my Freelancer Lite mod. As I wish to strip un-important less used items and re-design some of the systems, such as New York (for a start).

Any help would be fantastic!

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:56 am by Chips

every ship has a loadout in the loadouts.ini file - if any equipment in those loadouts is missing from the files - you get a crash.

It gets more complicated with stripping storylines due to each one having it's own personal shiparch.ini and some have loadouts.ini files too.

Personally I'd say remove what guns you want, and then use Accushots FLScan to scan the mod. It'll pull all the missing references in other files for you - so track em down and sort it. It'll do loadouts/market_misc/solar folders loadouts (wrecks) etc.

Same goes for ships - shiparch.ini is to remove them - BUT, its the loadouts.ini files, npcships.ini, market_ships and other files that are interlocked (including solararch.ini and it's loadouts for wrecks etc). Indeed, the systems files also include references to said wrecks, so if the ships go - you've got a lot of work to do.

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:39 pm by opwnageo

Hmmm, Chips, I know this may sound like I'm not willing to do any work, but I just don't understand the way EVERYTHING interconnects and links up.

Could you do a breakdown of all the links that tie things to the MP game so that single player and multiplayer are severed?

I'm guessing if they were to be severed, I'd have to create things under new nicknames or something so they dont accidently get referenced when I've taken them out so it's a little more organised, that would break the connections wouldn't it?

EDIT:

If I could just get a working base design with all story element links severed, then I could just go through and comment out things I don't need. Thats what I'm trying to figure out how to achieve at the moment.

Edited by - oPwnagEo on 9/17/2006 1:45:26 PM

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:55 pm by Bejaymac

Geez not another one.

Okay here it is in black and white for everybody to read and hopefully understand.

Client side in Freelancer was built as SP only by DA, no if's but's or maybe's, the MP was added as an after thought by M$ and is basically just a plugin. This means that no matter how much you try, ***** or complain you won't be able to seperate SP from MP and vice-versa as they are tied together in the source code.
Only a server using the FLServer.exe has the MP game engine, the client has to use the Freelancer.exe which means the SP game engine. It's only the additions that M$ made that allow the client side to even play MP.

It's not as if Freelancer is like EVE or Guild Wars, they were built for MP, FL wasn't and the sooner people realise this the better, I'm fed up fixing thier MP mistakes just so I can use thier mods on my LAN.

**shuffles of with a new headache**

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:41 pm by opwnageo

I'm not talking seperation in that sense of the word, just tricking it into allowing me to re-design or change a lot of things in the NY system, removing encounters, ships, systems and being able to do a re-shuffle.

WITHOUT causing a crash in doing it.

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:41 pm by Cold_Void

well microsoft was right to force MP on them if it did. i am so sick of space sims with no multiplayer(wheres the Replay Value?) - its even worse when the storyline is completely static... like freelancer. i'm sure MS management understood that and also understood their target audience would not switch from the superior dynamic-campaign singleplayer mode of WC Prophecy to the inferior static campaign(and story) of freelancer. i think given freelancer's primitive singleplayer architecture and completely obsolete animation SP should have been scrapped and the MP capabilities scaled up to a true MMO, but hey it is what it is and if you don't like it you're in the wrong place >=/

i sent you my total conversion INI pack pwn, so check your listed email addy

Edited by - Cold_Void on 9/17/2006 3:43:01 PM

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:34 am by Gibbon

I've attempted this and succeeded and i'm not alone in doing this. Careful thought has to be put into what goes but it's possible to have nothing left of the original FL ships, bases and weapons. I don't have any SP stuff left in my mod, not a thing. I've created new loadouts for every ship as Chips suggested, created custom weapons, new commodities etc, list is endless, plus got rid of all the original FL systems as they are buggy as hell! As long as you understand the relationship with the ini files, as in where everything goes then you won't have too much of a problem creating a TC mod. Check out Nightstalkers Universe mod on the Shadow Works forum, we've been working on our mods together and his is also a TC mod. Easier to debug than trying to deal with the original code, that i can guarantee

Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:54 am by opwnageo

Got it thanks Cold!

Haven't had a chance to look at it yet but if it removes all dependency links from the SP related items then I should be just able to add stick thinga back in one by one if I so wish and design systems back to what I wish myself...

Am I understanding it wrong?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:02 am by blackhole

If anyone wants to completely destroy the storyline, you can always simply prevent FL from loading its storyline DLL altogether, then substitute in New York's system code for FP7. If you go in and edit Restart.fl, you can also dictate where in the system you spawn. Voila, no storyline whatsoever. (I've done this, its possible)

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:21 am by opwnageo

Interesting Blackhole, could you upload a proof of concept mod? to some place like mega upload or some such?

I would really like to look at some examples to get my head around this type of thing ...

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:00 am by Cold_Void

yep, opwnageo - thus the SDK extension, because what it leaves you with is a mostly blank slate to build on. i was working on a TC when i made it, then i decided the TC wasn't big enough to justify its own mod and i integrated it and two other projects i was doing into one mod, needless to say i was left with this little file and i haven't used it since so i'm glad someone might get some more use from it

i'm sure we'd all be interested to hear your method blackhole - lots of us hate the storyline and just wish to get away from it

Edited by - Cold_Void on 9/18/2006 12:01:46 PM

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:19 am by opwnageo

I am interested in whatever method you guys think is best to accomplish what I am after hehe.

What I could do with however is an overview of the ini file relationships, as I feel by looking at this code I am on page 3 instead of page one, I do not know the extent of the changes done and where I can start as of yet hehe.

If you could help me with that I will get a clearer picture and be able to get to work!

For now though I'm off to start my hyperspace system :/

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:22 am by Strail

@ Beyjamac

Client side in Freelancer was built as SP only by DA, no if's but's or maybe's, the MP was added as an after thought by M$

You really shouldnt say this unless your 100% certain, because you will end up looking stupid.

Heres some links for you, pay attention to the date and the content, and enjoy.
Click here
Click here

Edited by - Strail on 9/19/2006 1:24:15 AM

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:43 pm by blackhole

I am working on a proof-of-concept as of now, but be warned, i believe that ripping out the storyline module also prevents leveling up. This can always be bypassed by simply making everything availible at level 1, which is what most people want anyway, but it is a side effect. I am currently testing for other side effects - i had thought this method was tested long ago, i wasn't aware that the community didn't seem to know about it.

EDIT: Released.

Edited by - Blackhole on 9/20/2006 12:40:36 AM

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:05 am by opwnageo

Hmmm

Not levelling up could be a problem.

Is there no way of combining methods told here so that the DLL can remain? Or a new one with the appropriate code be done?

It's obvious that blackhole, cold void, and gibbon are the ones here with the main knowledge (forgot about Chips there for a second) in this subject.

Maybe you three could combine your ideas and create a true Total Conversion SDK.

I have struggled to find a mod that does much of anything to the original systems in terms of design, sure you see the odd planet added or things taken off, but nothing major and I believe this is why.

Giving modders the opportunity to easily start from scratch and shape the Freelancer universe as they see fit instead of using a template (vanila) would be great imo.

Not that I'm saying the mods out there now are all bad, they are definately not, Strails VOID mod is one of the best I have seen and played, but nothing major seems to have been done to the original universe except a few planets here or there (you make some beautiful systems there Strail).

Edited by - oPwnagEo on 9/20/2006 2:28:26 AM

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