ok forget... forget this whole thread

i didnt create to discuss about "politics" even its just this forums politics
it was a good idea but it doesnt seem to be wanted... at least i have the feeling that it is this way

so just forget about this thread... delete it... burry it somewhere
i go back and work on my own stuff

What? someone posts their thoughts on your issues and you give up?

Not everyone sees eye to eye, or the same things - but i'm not right - just offering my own opinion on it as a forum user/poster.

Like i said, the forum is what you make of it, so being nice and helping is what it's always done. You're attempting to call others to aid to make it easier for newer people - I tend to disagree about repeating things ad nauseum forever though, and think it's fine to say "use the search button, its stickied at the top" etc to motivate them to look for things - that is all.

I also haven't dismissed your points either, just offering up an opinion/alternative view as to why things happen - and attempted to encourage to make changes. I was originally going to say "if you need help doing something, let us know" - but I don't physically have time to start changing threads/redoing things to make it easier for people, so it would have been pointless to offer - but maybe if I had said that, you wouldn't get deflated so simply.

As for politics - it was a poking fun humour, sorry if you didn't see it that way

Tell you what, since I am good at killing off this thought - just gimmie a shout if anyone needs anything and i'll stick out of threads in future.

Edited by - Chips on 4/26/2006 12:31:03 PM

Hi!

I agree with Chips. In my opinion the word "impossible" should of course not be used too often, but why not use it, if it fits. Yes I know that people always made the impossible possible, but if a new modder asks how to create an anti-radiation addon for his ship, so that it takes no damage in radiation zones, why not say it is impossible. You can always add that it is impossible as far as you know.
Ok, such an addon might even be possible to create for some good modder, who has a great idea. But not every new modder coming here is a new top-modder and if someone really wanted to create such a thing, he would alsoi try it, if others said it was impossible.
I also heard that some things I wanted are impossible, but tried it anyway and with some of them I had success.
So, just a word like "impossible" will not chase away new modders.

For the second thing. As Chips said, every game can be modded up to some point. I wouldn't say we are already near to that point, but we have already made so many great new features possible that it is just normal that not every week we have a totally new feature made possible via modding. You named the current great experiments by yourself, the dynamic universe and real economy are our current experiments and after these will sometime come new ones. So, I wouldn't say we run out of ideas, we just concentrate on some good ones and afterwords search for new ones, that's ok.

The gravedigging discussion isn't necessary at all I think, because the rule on TLR says that you should not post comments like "great post" or similar things on old topics, but you can always post, if you have new results on a topic. So, it is just a rule against useless (although they may be nice and polite) comments in old posts.

However Swat, I can understand that you want to encourage others to really get deep into FL modding and make new things possible for this great game. I personally think you do a great job with your mod and the dynamic universe experiment now. Of course new modders should not be chased away with rough comments, but should be welcomed by everyone and their ideas shouldn't be called useless or something similar. In my opinion this thread does not have to end in a long discussion about things like gravedigging. Your initial post has some good ideas and intentions, which everyone should remember.
So this thread could be a reminder to everyone that new ideas are needed, new modders are always welcome and that FL modding is still totally alive!!!

Black Eagle

1. At my last job our boss used to say "There are no such things as problems, only opportunities". This lasted a while until someone pointed out that we were currently facing an "insurmountable opportunity". Obviously most of the features suggested over the years could be implemented by essentially rewriting the entire game engine, but that's not really practically possible is it?

You tend to see this when a new user joins the forums and make a post with a title along the lines of "MASSIVE NEW FL FEATURES!", containing a list of features that'd be fantastic to have but couldn't be implemented without several million in the bank and a five year development program. Believe me guys, if we could have built a way to control your own trading empire a la X2/X3 then we would have done already...

In my opinion it's better to let a modder know that an idea is, as far as we know, impossible, rather than give them false hope and make them waste several months attempting to make it work.

2. Regarding the gravedigging point, that's valid up to a certain point. However, when people are asked "How do I increase cruise speed" for the thousandth time I'd say they're well within their rights to say "Go search for it".

3. I don't really see what you're getting at here. If an inexperienced modder posts some good, practical (see point 1) ideas then surely the more experienced modders would take the idea and run with it. I can't really see any further way to do what you're saying, aside from forcing established modding teams to take on inexperienced team members in the hope that they'll have some good ideas...

Besides, I'd think that experienced modders would have more idea of new features that could be added to the game, and more importantly they'd know which can be implemented and which are, to all intents and purposes, impossible.

i'm with Chips and Accushot here, and ya +3years and the limits of modding a game that was released with ZERO modding support are being found.Sorry if thats like jabbing you in the eye with a hot poker,but the truth hurts.

things for modders to do that would be groundbreaking:
decode the animation format so we can make animated stations and possibly weapons
perfect the SUR export code
really get behind Grover's dynamic economy project and get it working in MP
implement a 3D system editor
use all the neglected features i've brought up in discussion here on TLR and the freelimits forum;things like dispersion_angle/drag_modifier/cruise_drag/etc
more progress on ALE editing(see Arghs Toolkit 1.3)

as for impossible - no nothing's really impossible...i suppose its _possible_ to completely reverse engineer the game.but can it be done in a lifetime?five years? the answer is unfortunately, that its not worth it. sure you can implement lots of whizbang features but what the players want is content and balance and nothing else will satisfy

I would like to see if anyone can implement to let an NPC to give Trent an item in the bar. It's for an adventure mod I'm working on. Maybe a commodity like gold or maybe a weapon.

Edited by - buckaroobanzai on 4/26/2006 10:17:44 PM

There's no such thing as impossible, we couldn't fly till just over 100 years ago and while Freelancer is a different kettle of fish entirely, a lot of hitherto new things have been and are being done! Examples include glowmapping on ships, giant planets and suns, new equipment addons for ships, the dynamic economy addon currently being worked on, the list goes on.

The attitude of some on here is the biggest problem, specially some of the older modders who maybe have just had enough and can't be bothered, and are content with saying, "No, that's impossible". I agree some things are virtually impossible to implement due to the restrictions of the FL code itself, but i'm sure there are several features that are still out there to be discovered, and will be discovered, given the time and enthusiasm from people who actually want to discover them. So i'm all for supporting these people, and if a few old threads get dredged up, who cares, as long as something new comes from it

Let's not forget FL is getting on now but there are hardly any games which offer the features that FL does, its easy to get into, easy to learn and with all the mods available, great to play. Lastly, let's not forget Lancers Reactor itself, with its wealth of knowledge and tips from all sorts of players and modders, there's no excuse for those wishing to improve the game, it's just a question of when, not if.

this thread was about to help finding new ways of modding... and not to discuss about crap like "FL is old", "we reached our limits", "there are forum rules",...
i said to just ignore this thread if you dont like it because with this discussion here you reached the opposite of its original purpose
you disencourage people with new ideas by posting this ****

tzz - impossible.... what tells you that something is impossible? what? only because YOU dont know a way to realize it?
if some1 has an idea, a crazy idea, then let him work on it, let the community work on it... no matter how long it takes... if they dont manage to find out how to realize then they still can say "hey we tried" or "hey we didnt found out of but we found many other things"
but if you say "impossible" then you kill possible development even before it started

that what i said about gravedigging was not wrong has been proven due to the fact that others noticed the same but ok

and i tell you something... I created this thread to help people and to push some development not to discuss about what is right or wrong... not to discuss about politics
and im not wasting my time with something that is taken screwed and turned into a discussion just about "crap"

Don't start having a tantrum and insulting people, you should be well above that. I already mentioned that I suggest you read the rules, I make it again in light of your language and response to others.

I imagine you'll continue to help people.

where have i insulted just a single member of this community?

plz show me that line

Ok, folks, calm down. In the real world, some things are impossible,but in the gaming world, much is not, simply not done to yet.

So much for offering an opinion...

But too add on to that Fin, is it really worth spending months to getting something done in the game engine to work? Most of the things people are doing will add maybe a month of extra fun for the months you spent working on it, but once you unlock the......."radar blocker", POS(PLayer Owned Stations), Wing mates that are NPC that travel with you anywhere, Player Controled Battleship that others are able to dock on, A market that reacts to everything you do. It's all possible, but is it worth spending months on it for a game that isn't supported by it's makers anymore. It's a game that is pretty much passing it's prime in the gaming world.(It's 3 years old)
Sure that sounds all great to do for Freelancer, but it all comes down to, Is it worth it? How will it effect your real life values?

Look at Openlancer, The game that was suppose to change Freelancer engine by using a new engine in order to do all those cool things for Freelancer. Which in the end the whole thing seem to have died, the forums isn't up anymore, but I did talk to the leader of the project a year ago and he said then he would have a working game engine within about 3 month.....he released that intro to Openlancer that doesn't even work for me, about 4 months ago. (Never believed him anyway)

But the whole point is, are you willing to spend months upon months just to unlock whatever you want in the game engine? A lot of us might think it isn't becuase there are way better games to look upon to edit and enjoy playing it.
I myself think it isn't worth putting so much effort in a game that is dieing. If you are going to go ahead and spend the time, good luck.

Translation,

Modders need to start thinking outside the box, if they choose to succeed and contribute successfully to their server community.

Unfortunately, institutional thinking is in place for the majority of mods these days.

As an active FL for the past 3 years, I enjoy mods that are unique and add a balance to the game or show what the game could be.