Concepts, Ideas, Suggestions

Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:55 am by SWAT_OP-R8R

Ive been here on LR for about 5 years now... since the times of StarLancer. But lately i have to say there is not much development here anymore.
Ok there are many small mods and new mod creators which come here to ask how they create new ships, systems and so on. And the old mod creators do a very good job to help them.
But like i said... there is not much new here... no real development (there were times when this was different).

You know that Im right with that... right now there are only a very few valueable new projects that can push the development again. One of them is the Real economy and another is the Dynamic Universe concept (which is tested on my server atm).

There are 3 problems I see.

1. Too often the word "impossible" is used here on LR (and most likely on other places aswell). When I came up with several ideas there were many people which said "thats impossible" but finally i made those concepts possible.
I seriously do suggest not to use this word any longer and better think about ways to make things possible instead. Sometimes its better to say "i dont know how it can be done" because many people just will stop researches when they read the word "impossible". It would even better to say nothing.

2. "gravedigging"... I often did read that expression here on LR when people posted on old threads. Actually i have a real problem with this expression. It is a very stupid way to say "shut up".
Where is the problem that you have a problem with people searching on old threads and posting there (no matter how old they are)?
I tell you how i see it. FL is more than 3 years old... people have started to create mods just a few months after the release. Since that time many damn cool ideas have been posted here... and many of those ideas have been forgotten again because people have said something stupid like "impossible"

Cmon think back... 2 years ago... how much did you know about modding? Did you have more or less knowledge and ability than today?
Right today we know much more and we have much more tools we can use.
Many of those old ideas were only "impossible" because we didnt know how to realize them... because we didnt have the knowledge at these times.
Well times do change... we have the tools and we have the knowledge now... it is time to stop saying "gravedigging" ... its time to start to say "hey i remember this discussion maybe we find a solution now"
(again sorry if Im too direct with what i say)

3. Final problem that i see is that we have many very good mod creators here, which are running out of ideas. And we have many new unexperienced mod creators here with new fresh ideas but without the knowledge how to realize them.
So in my eyes the task should be to encourage those new guys to post their ideas (no matter how crazy they are) and let the experienced guys make those ideas possible together with those new ones (but without saying "impossible"

.

Well you dont need to agree with me... that is just my oppinion... that where i see the problems.
Those of you that think now "hey old ideas are not neccessarily bad ideas" or "nothing is imposible unless you think so" or "the old still can learn from the young"... those guys should use this thread to collect new ideas, make suggestions, discuss about them and create new concepts out of these ideas.
If not then just ignore this thread. Its your decision.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:34 am by Mace_166

I've been trying to add new things to mine. It has a few things that i haven't seen before. Things like:
A hidden quest sending you around the sector map performing tasks to gain access to nique items.
A second economy in the trade of the large cargo pods (which are actually shield generators) throughout the sector map. There's around 35 cargo pod commodities. That can be mounted on to the transport type ships.
Long range transport missions. Buy a good that in the info tells you where to go in what time to receive payment. Some, also "like smuggle illegal equipment from a house military" from one place into their enemies. Wit all of the local law and pirates scanning you for it.
Lond range destroy missions. You buy a cheap economy telling you the location of an enemy solar in a hostile and dangerous system. You destroy it, tractor the "mission complete" commodity and return to receive payment.
They are the main ones for now. But, i do try to make new ideas just to keep things interesting.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:41 am by cheese on toast

I myself have bin here only a few weeks

but once i figured out the basics of modding, i just went crazy about the idea, im still currently working on my own mod which i have been working on for almost 2 months now only ask 4 help when it was desperatly needed

(Thx chips

). Im in the process of teaching some friends of mine how have FL to mod (well the basics atleast).

If there are any new modders out there, post like crazy ure ideas

and the experienced modders out there will answer the call

Cheese On Toast:
Like the name
Beware the player

Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:59 am by Chips

Gravedigging is outlined in the forum rules, members shouldn't comment upon others gravedigging.

Until the policy is changed, it will be enforced where required. Of course, you're allowed your opinions, just pointing something out is all

Edited by - Chips on 4/25/2006 11:00:59 AM

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:23 am by fadius

I honestly think that the gravedigging policy is a real hold back on newcomers and deters a lot fo them. I myself have come across old posts and wanted to ask questions in regards to them, but have nt as I would get flamed for even bring it out from the grave.

If you do not want grave digging, delete the posts. But then you would lose a lot of information. Otherwise allow these old topics to be brought up.

I have also seen new posts started asking questions about something that was also asked in a really old topic. Would you rather have new topics started that were already covered partially in an old buried topic?

I have to agree with Swat_OP_R8R on this one. He is right on. New ideas are far and few between now. I agree that bringin up some burried ideas and questions may spark some new development.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:46 am by SWAT_OP-R8R

rules can be changed and i dont really see any disadvantage (beside some more activity here again

)

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:05 pm by Chips

Obviously neither of you have actually bothered to read the rules on gravedigging at all.

Oh dear, such is life eh. Kind of dispairing when people comment upon how they think a rule is bad when they can't even be bothered to check out what they are slating. Don't worry though, we are quite used to it

*edit* Damn spelling!

Out of curiosity - what were you told that was impossible that you've acheived?

Edited by - Chips on 4/25/2006 1:12:05 PM

Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:17 pm by StarTrader

Having been a critic of Swat on occasion for his curt innuendos without giving clear answers

I think I have to admit he's absolutely correct on these points, including his comment on "gravedigging", Chips. It seems to me he's taken what I said to heart and is opening up his help to people who may ask for it.

I have often been blunted by silly people who have the knowledge but can't be bothered to answer and just say 'go look' - and since I always do that before I ask, I resent it very much.

I try to answer to assist, even briefly, and even if it's tiresome. So I welcome questions that ask about stuff that's already been discussed, but merely ask that those who answer try to point the guy at the very topic that may answer the question with a link. It will help many others.

And I have seen you do it on occasion, both pointing people at the answer and also giving repetitive answers, for which you have my respects.

To help searchers, I think the most important thing to do is re-organise and re-index the old threads and remove duplicates, and make the unique ones easy to find. I know this is a huge task, but I think it's very worthwhile... you did this with many of the threads but unfortunately some of the links are not correct now.

Is there someone who has the access who would do this? Probably yourself again, Chips old pal.

Then my last comment is I fully support Swat's comments and incentive here, we do need to breathe some new ideas into FL - or it will die, and it's a shame and waste of all the knowledge that's been gained by so many capable modders and programmers. In particular I would like to see some of the utilities fixed, including FL Explorer, which have 'known bugs' that drive me crazy but the authors are unwilling or unable to continue to support or fix - I'm fed up fixing robots with head 0!!! And superb ini editors like Tinyfish that don't move the line pointer to the top line every time you open a new file! And HardCMP that doesn't tell you it didn't overwrite the old file because it is read-only!! Aaaarghh!!

Avenger Out!

Roleplay: - the art of self-deceipt!

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:24 pm by Chips

Is there someone who has the access who would do this?

Any moderator could - but would they spend their time doing so? You've got to read through every single post before deleting it, to check to see if the content holds something vital/informative. There are only a few moderators who would know what to look for (about 5 of us perhaps), of which only I post regularly.

For me, personally, with it being my time - it's not even remotely productive, and i would not do it... I personally see no point. I busted nutts making stuff easy to find, and people never read the stickies of other threads (or rules

), so I kinda gave up... hence why I don't usually do much anymore - I may help with bug crunching, but that's about it to be honest.

Furthermore, the forum software is in dire need of an upgrade - as is the whole site. Sadly, the issue is with databases, and that lies with the Site Admins - so the changes of an upgrade are slim until issues are resolved.

However
You may make posts all you like, don't let my big mouth put you off doing anything at all! I don't physically do much moderating in these forums as they have always pretty much ran themselves without issue, hence why I am only offering my opinion upon the one part which touched upon forum rules.

Feel free to guage opinions, create new threads to help etc - and ask for stickies too, start asking questions/making requests (be warned, the pace of action here can be indescribabily slow).
If you think some rules require changing, then you can make suggestions in the site feedback forum (remember, they are rules for all forums though!) - but do include suggsetions/recommendations about what it should be... and on more than one if you feel like it. It may get done, you never know (but don't hold your breath

).

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:32 pm by Xca|iber

Now I don't want to be involved in the 'gravedigging' topic, so I'm saying now that I have no opinion on the subject.

That said, I would like to say that I fully agree with the idea of bringing new life to FL. I have been modding for about 1.5 years now (I only just got a profile though) and I do hear the word "impossible" a lot. Now I know that a lot of things are hardcoded, and are really impossible for a simple script-modder like me to change. (I'm still learning the omitted features that were part of Freelancer). Anyway, I think something really different and new would be a great 'breath of life' for FL.

Just my 2 cents.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:54 pm by Mace_166

I can't see that moderators would welcome the idea of sorting through years of previous posts. They aren't exactly paid for this are they? I'm not sure what kind of interface you have for editing posts, but maybe you could just lock all threads over, say, a year old?
Most of the old posts are old for a reason anyhow. They either were an idea that didn't work or they worked and are most likely covered in the tutorials forum.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:09 pm by flybyu

I would like to add this also. When a new forum member or for that fact an old forum member ask were some thing is or how to do something, there are several members that post things like search for it or you must be lazy.

That is not a helpful post, and also drives new modders away that may in the future bring something new to the forum. I feel that if you are going to post something then be helpful if your not helpful then do not post.

As of today I have never had anyone do this to me, but I have seen it done to others many times.

This is for all those who are guilty of being a snob.

Be helpful! This is the best web site on the www for Freelancer lets act like it.

"It doesn’t matter what universe you’re from. That’s got to hurt!"

Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:16 am by Chips

I can't see that moderators would welcome the idea of sorting through years of previous posts. They aren't exactly paid for this are they? I'm not sure what kind of interface you have for editing posts, but maybe you could just lock all threads over, say, a year old

If you didn't know, I updated the forum rules with Eraser checking the changes. It was because people used to complain/attack others for gravedigging as well as for discussing topics previously discussed. It was a catch 22 situation, where nothing could be dicussed if it had been mentioned before.

Now it's just limited to making non contributory or relevant posts - like "cool", "thanks" and "awesome". So, indeed, the rules on gravedigging are not strict or stiffling at all - they are there to allow discussion of old topics if required, but to also prevent people from making a nonsensical post to "bump" a thread back up. Essentially, if it's relevant to the thread - then it is okay. Sadly, forum members still like to jump on anyone bumping old threads for these reasons still - it takes time for people to make changes, and we do wish others wouldn't comment (especially if it's a relevant post, but even when not it's best to leave it).

If we locked all topics though, it would be even more limiting towards people - they cannot comment on old topics (fair enough perhaps) but does mean they would need to create new topics to discuss the issues with the older ones. Information and discussion would no longer be concise and easy to find, but split up and in a nonsensical order.

It then becomes a case of what is worse, solving issues in old topics/threads by making a new topic/thread for it and compounding search issues for anyone else - OR - keeping information fairly concise by solving issues related to a thread/topic in that thread/topic.

As for a moderators interface? We see what you see, we can lock a topic and unlock it, or sticky it - by the icons at the bottom of that thread. To edit, delete we use exactly the same method all users do - we click the buttons for the posts. The difference is that a moderator has a kind of "universal username/password" to access posts, so whereas you can only edit/delete your own posts - we can do it to anyones. That is it.

Edited by - Chips on 4/26/2006 1:17:23 AM

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:21 am by SWAT_OP-R8R

Edited by - SWAT_OP-R8R on 4/26/2006 2:29:28 AM

Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:28 am by SWAT_OP-R8R

to lock threads, to close them or to re-arrange them was not the purpose of this thread here (it would cause the opposite of what is needed)

to discuss about changes on LR there will never become reality was also not the purpose

so please lets come back to the main topic of this thread.... MODS

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