Well Argh, tried to make the system smaller but, a point seems to have been reached where despite objects appearing larger, the distances remain the same.
There are other possibilities, re your ideas, that relate to common human experience throughout history.
The placement of many stations in FL is a case in point. There are no real commercial hubs in space as there are on the planets. One would think that industries would be placed in a more logical relationship to each other e.g., shipyards alongside hull fabrication plants and arms factories etc.
An ideal commercial hub of that nature in space would be central to the system where possible with all tradelanes eminating from that central location. Or, if not tradelanes, then jumpgates and jumpholes nearby or, both, as tradelanes would be usefull for bringing in the raw materials for industry from the outlaying regions of the system.
Players would be converging on these hubs and probably meeting more often than at present.
Now, if we could only choose an avatar and upon docking,' meet' each other at the pubs. Drink beer, have fights, get arrested.............................................a "real" virtual life.

@Falcon:

With the size issue... insofar as planets go... this has to do with the SPH files that are used to define them. The release I'm working on, I'm making planets as CMPs, so we can make them any size we want (so long as you have the skills needed, etc.). So it should be quite possible to make "systems" that are as small as anybody would like.

well i think instead of talking about it we should actually start doing it as with the multiple bases on a planet THAT is possible

http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/t ... e=&M=False


I say we add new music

http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/t ... e=&M=False

which i can add some rock that my dads band did


i say we make all the planets orbit i dont know if this means spin but IT would be more realistic if we could have the planets orbit around a base or somethin like our planet(earth) rotates around the sun..

http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/t ... e=&M=False

It would be kool if you could buy an engine and then pick what color you wanted it to be...Or what color gun...

(engine colors)http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=17648&forum_id=29&Topic_Title=%2A%2ATutorial%2A%2A+Secret+to+engine+colors&forum_title=Freelancer+Editing+Tutorial+Forum&cat_title=&M=False

It would be cool if you could do missions that you actually can go out and kill players that are bad with the faction (but only if there on and if there not on have an AI pop up that had there loadout and name and everythin)(although that would be very difficult it might be possible)

(adding new targets to missions)http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=37124&forum_id=29&Topic_Title=%2A%2ATUTORIAL%2A%2A+Adding+new+targets+to+random+missions&forum_title=Freelancer+Editing+Tutorial+Forum&cat_title=&M=False

I say we should add scanners and tractor beams to invintory(i think this means bases but if it doesn't thats what i mean) that can be equiped to all ships no matter what level or anything and you could pick different ones. They would have different ranges and depending on your budget thats the one you could get.

(adding scanners and tractor beams to inventory)http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=12271&forum_id=29&Topic_Title=%2A%2ATutorial%2A%2A+%2D+Add+scanners+and+tractor+beams+to+the+inventory+menu+in+5+minutes&forum_title=Freelancer+Editing+Tutorial+Forum&cat_title=&M=False

as with above have it so that you can buy a better engine that is univeral to all ships. depending on your buget if you dont have enough money to buy a new ship you can upgrade your engine.
(making bases sell engines)http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=14292&forum_id=29&Topic_Title=%2A%2ATutorial%2A%2A+%2D+Make+bases+sell+ENGINES&forum_title=Freelancer+Editing+Tutorial+Forum&cat_title=&M=False

WELL i say we start doing this we should get together (everyone that has replied to this post) and actually work on it as a whole. as we need to get together we need to be able to talk and talk about the mod so someone could make a forum JUST for the mod (like proboards)(http://freelancermodteam.proboards??.com or something)and we need to give e-mails out and msn or aim address...i'll start...(i could also make a proboards page too if you want)(oh 1 more note... if we do make the proboards page i think everyone on here should be moderators on the proboards page if we do make one)

I have msn
-msn name
[email protected]
-e-mail
[email protected]
-aim
DrumMastaKB(i think)

well if anyone thinks this is a good idea say something...if not say something anyways...

Edited by - FLFreeLancerCpt on 7/7/2005 7:54:07 AM

"A more recent idea of mine was to have micro systems where only a single planet dominated the system (more realistic scaling) and you had the option of 'docking' with several 'cities' on the planet but it really sent you to a new system that represented the surface of the planet (WOS style) and whatever city you docked with."

-------

This idea is brilliant, in my opinion. It could be made even better by allowing you to travel from one city to another without entering space, for boats, for example. Is it possible to remove the jumpgate animation? So you just dock with it and appear in the other system (albeit with a loading time). To make it even more realistic you could make the content system you were just in appear behind you as you exited the jumpgate. It would actually be a copy, but it would look like you hadn't moved. The main reason for this is to cut down on lag.

I think the idea here is to create a pretty much fully interactive planet, perhaps with cars as well. If you can make a water surface, surely you can mae a land one as well? You could then take your boat to a dock, buy a car and drive off. Same with a plane. If there is a way to make a maxiumum height for planes, you could even have seperate spacecraft. And a moon!

Many of the features being discussed here, including planets with multiple docking rings, are already implemented in the Evolutions 1.28 mod. This is, by far, the most fun mod I've ever played. Cruise speeds are improved and a LOT of depth has been added to the gameplay by the addition of new resources, ships, and equipment types. I find teaming up with people to be easy as contacting them then flying to their location, which can be done quickly. I've been in a 4-person group in a server with 10 people on it before, yet the universe is as big as in standard FL.

Edited by - Stryker on 7/7/2005 10:52:34 AM

Good points all around, but I feel that many people are (literally) forgetting half the game. I really have never been able to stand Multiplayer in any game, and Freelancer is no different. In SinglePlayer, exploration is key to fun, and having small systems leaves little to explore. Thus, you have to balance smaller systems vs. larger one based on if it's MP or SP. My system mod is most definitely SP-based, and so I focus on making large systems with little nooks and crannies for people to explore, find histories of planets and empires, and a feeling of satisfaction for finding things. That's my take on the issue: it is VERY important on what type of mod you're making.

MK

I beleive this discussion is mostly about MP... Anyone suuport the idea of making one large interactive planet?

I think the multiplayer mod would need to be large enough that it rewards players who have travelled around and searched for the best equipment. The more established players should be able to gain a small advantage against tourists. It would then become a test not only of the players dogfighting skills but also how well they know the game as a whole.

Also, the thought of adding the micro system planet thing and then creating your own custom objects and bases is a very tempting proposition. If i could bring that into my mod it would be awesome, but its already very big, and adding a system for every planet is just not do-able.
Can you use the thns`objects on the base surfaces? they should be usable to have bases that we already know. Maybe you could have two docking rings at the planet, one for dock at "this base", the other, to "low orbit corridor" or something. But, you could actually fly over the other one on the planets surface. There wouldn`t be any players docked there obviously..

Edited by - M-A-C-E_166 on 7/7/2005 3:09:23 PM

I don't really think of this as being SP vs. MP, although most of my modding efforts have been aimed at MP players.

SP's problems are just as bad as MP's, imo. In the original FL storyline, we see maybe 20% of the whole FL universe, if you don't deliberately go off the beaten path at every chance. What's the point of the other 80%?

In my opinion, if you're going to make a solid SP experience, you need to look at the same issues as come up in MP. Such as:

1. There's no point in returning to the "easy areas" after you've maxed out your equipment in Omicron Gamma/Unknown. Why is that? Why aren't there Missions available in those areas that are so far out've a newbie's reach that you can't do them until you have the Uber Flying Tank of Doom? Sure, the upgrade path's gotta end somewhere, but the challenges should continue to rise... until you reach multi-million credit Missions that are flat-out impossible for all but the very best. In the default game, nothing cuts it- Omicron Gamma is pretty darn easy, and Unknown is dull, because you can only kill so many Nomads before you get really, really bored with it all.

2. Is there really much point in exploring when there's nothing to do at the hidden places in the game? I mean, there's very little in the Border Worlds that's really all that interesting... and much of it could've been stuck into much more "packed" House systems instead of forcing players to travel huge distances just to see something vaguely new? Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather play a game where I see something new and interesting under every rock and bush than a game where I have search an entire asteroid field for 30 minutes in the vague hope that... if I find anything at all... it won't be some disappointing Wreck or boring Station that is either totally hostile or doesn't sell anything that I can't get elsewhere, or both.

This is not entirely true, of course- there are a few areas that are vaguely interesting, like the home of the GMG, the Corsairs and Outcasts' homeworlds, and the Unknown Systems. But even these areas feel... half-finished.

My idea here was that... even in SP... there's very little point in gigantic sprawl. Morrowind is a great example of this concept- there is something to do just about anywhere you go- from killing monsters to figuring out how to pilfer loot, there's always something to do, and it's usually interesting. SP FL doesn't feel that way to me- it's always been more like a big, pretty box that's 99% air and 1% content.

As for the specific ideas listed above... well... um... they're nice, but they've all been done before, in various places. Evolutions did an excellent job, and I stole fairly heavily from it when I built the Toolkit, so that modders could get into those kinds of design issues right away, instead of fighting with the basics.

One of the biggest features in version 1.2 of the Toolkit that apparantly escaped notice (I haven't gotten a single comment back anyway) is how I built custom THN scripts for every House location that didn't already have Shipdealers... adding something on the order of 80+ new locations for people to buy new ships and giving modders a lot more options if they're working with "stock" FL as their starting-place. I went ahead and did that to address some of the fundamental "ho-hum" issues in the SP design, such as the fact that making friends with most of the criminal Factions is totally pointless, because they don't have anything interesting for you to buy from them.

At any rate, I didn't start this to recruit people for yet another uber-mod... if I want to start one, I'll get back with y'all when I have a game design document done Right now, I'm just thinking things over... I've already built a TC that's more "total" than anything else done with the game engine to date, built a totally rebalanced SP/MP game design, and now I have to decide what, if anything, I want to do next. The FL engine is easy enough to mod (once you get past its many quirks) that I'm tempted to build one more major project with the game engine to try to put some of this thought to the test.

@mknote:
I would love to see your mod - even in early alpha. You need help in testing?

@argh
first of all thanks for your analysis of FL-gaming. You are right (imo) about MP aspects - but I think you don't have the same understanding for the fascination of SP-addicted 'Freelancers'. For some players - like me - it IS thrilling to explore HUGE unknown regions. And it is part of that fascination that sometimes you've been flying around for hours in a system without finding anything (No, I am not a masochist ).

If you go fishing for trout in a nice clearwater-river most of the time you will not get a catch. But still fishing is fascinating for some people. For others it is just boring.
A SP-friendly mod offers you some hidden big game fishing.

I don't know if you ever played Hostile Universe 8.1. There I have found some of the most intense moments in FL. Just seeing the nebulas in "Lost worlds" (if I remember correctly the name) was awesome. And suddenly and without warning my first ever meeting with a shadow-crab - unforgettable. I am not promoting this fairly old and not further developped mod. But there is some gameplay in it we hardly ever had since in other mods, like the chase for Hilton (with a 1-Mio-$-reward) or the search for that lost ship (I still have not found it) or the - for me - unexplainable effect in one of the most remote systems that with every visit there are some more small(est) hostlile points on the map. This was big game fishing!

All these examples here try to explain the fascination in FL beyond difficult and highly paid jobs, battleship encounters or whatever.

Last point: Yes, in Vanilla FL there is only the challenge to get more and more credits as an incentive for traders. But if a player accepts this limitation then he can play FL as a kind of RTS-game. Example: mine niobium with a large and weak freighter in the tau's and sell it at Leipzig station. In preparation for such a run you have to level your rep with Outcasts, GMG, Red Hessians, Corsairs and Unioners - not the simplest job in limited time and without bribes.

Of course once you have found out how you need another challenge. Evo 1.28 with his lots of new commodities brought much of such fun into FL - I am sure that this is one of the most important reasons why this mod became so popular (and still is: seems that Evo 1.30 will be around soon - any news, Chips ??)

Conclusion : A mod for MP- AND SP-afficionados should mix small central war-grounds, connected clan systems (sort of dead-end-street-systems) and a bunch of large {read it loud } fairly eerie areas for explorers and lone wolfes.

Edit: reading friendlier

Edited by - zazie on 7/8/2005 1:10:59 AM

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I think the multiplayer mod would need to be large enough that it rewards players who have travelled around and searched for the best equipment. The more established players should be able to gain a small advantage against tourists. It would then become a test not only of the players dogfighting skills but also how well they know the game as a whole.

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In my "interactive planet" idea, spacecraft would be the most expensive ships, allowing people to enter space and get around the planet much quicker.

ok...I've started a modding Team.....DarkWorks
if anyone wants to join click link.....or copy and paste it....http://darkworksteam.proboards49.com/.....

If you want to join the team sign up at the link i just gave you;
are main goal would be to do all the things we've talked about in this topic as well as add a few new ships and ANYthing AND EVERYTHING possible

I think you are misunderstanding the point of this thread. Jumping the gun when we have only just presented the issue isn't a good idea.

Right. Let's keep the ideas coming and each keep a list\outline of those we think best and compare them later and see where we agree.

Then, later still, a tentative 'plan of action' could be drawn up and further discussed.

I'm here mainly to scout the ideas, myself. I promise to steal only those that everyone rejects.....................

Edited by - falcon 2 on 7/8/2005 8:12:30 PM