Important Message

You are browsing the archived Lancers Reactor forums. You cannot register or login.
The content may be outdated and links may not be functional.


To get the latest in Freelancer news, mods, modding and downloads, go to
The-Starport

Wing Commander Anyone?

The general place to discuss MOD''ing Freelancer!

Post Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:20 pm

Wing Commander Anyone?

Can someone please make a Wing Commander Mod for freelancer?That game was the first space sim i played and it was for the snes.I would love the music and everything put in mod,just too bad a full single player campaign could not be made based from the wing commander game into freelancer,or prob could but too much work.

Post Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:33 pm

well there is a privateer mod you can get it here also theres a patch for it here



Edited by - _vamp_ on 4/11/2005 10:35:08 PM

Post Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:25 pm

Yeah, I'm working on one too. Just need a little help. check out my site for some screenies.

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander--Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:30 am

Hi,
im in a modteam, too, and we are writting a mod for the german fl-server Berlin2005. In the mod the coalition will find the alliance. And the koalition will fly with the ships of WC4, ie dragon, panther, arrow and bearcat. We also want to put in some carriers as stations.
By the way, if you want, maybe we could exchange some cmp. I really need some stations. tell me, if you´re interessted.

Bye,
Seether

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:52 am

Not to be rude, by why the hell would you use WC ships for a mod that isn't even WC related? Make your own...or use SL ships since they actually have the coalition.




Merc for hire...but only if you can afford it.

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:11 pm

ditto on strikers comment, I would use something else.

@striker, getting a little tactless aren't we? Did you have your wheaties this morning?

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander--Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:47 pm

speaking of WC ship models johnhawke - your hornet looks great - somehow I suspect you used the blueprints and not screenshots of the poor ol' pixelated sprites for templates (wing commander had something like 256 8-bit color pixels for an entire ship heheh - but then they gave you janes & very beautiful illustrated blueprints with 3d cutaways to make up for it)

****rant addressed in general to everyone making a wc->fl mod.****
1.In wing commander missile mounts were fixed,ie no flapping around when you move your cursor,this is something I find very annoying(to watch) in FL,it's also highly unnecessary as the missile launchers have a wide firing arc already built into their fire hardpoint.
2.Dumbfire missiles packed a huge punch,while more maneuverable missiles sacrificed their explosive payload for longer flight times & greater turning/homing capabilities- this produced a _balanced_ & useful missile set.Also in WC missiles were scaled correctly(yes FL has models for them,you cant see them easily in game because the scale is soo bad,scale em up* with flmodeltool and you can see & shoot them down with guns & other normal missiles)then assign them logical volume properties to restrict payload (no starfliers flying around with 150 missiles in the cargo bay!!!!! )
3.Where's my TCS Tiger's Claw already?
4.Try not to use any "classic" wing commander gun effects

*4x all around looks good,z axis is end-to-end


Edited by - Cold_Void on 4/13/2005 2:50:19 PM

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:25 pm

@cold_void,

thx for the praise, I worked hard on that model, it took about 3 weeks to do. Anywho, I actually use the losey claw marks photos to do the model not the blueprints, (which once I thought about, I should have done it vice-versa.) It was pretty confusing, but I think I managed to pull it off with some improvision. I actually made a model based on the in-game graphics about a year ago, it's still on this site somewhere.

To address your rants,

(1) regarding non-fixed missles, I agree theoretically they should be fixed. But, (and I make a big but.) the control of the missle suffers, mainly because of the odd method of ship control freelancer uses. I'll give it a try fixed, but I doubt the general populace will like it.

(2a) Dumbfires would be hard to use in FL. It might work in cockpit view, but in standard over the shoulder view it would be really hard to aim. (once again we could give it a try, but I repeat, I don't think the general populace would like it.)

(2b) I agree on the number of missles argument, to a point... First of all yes most WC1 fighters had between 3-6 max missles. But remember, it only takes 1.4 missles to destroy a Dralthi in WC1. It would take a lot more than that in FL because the missles aren't as potent. But, we could changes the weapon stats to reflect that and lower the missle payload. (though if I put only 3 missle on my hornet mod, I'd probably be stoned... by the general populace.)

(3) I'll make the claw... as a base, not flyable. I think flyable battleships are ridiculous.

(4) I agree, the original sound effects were a little corny. But finding or making new ones might be difficult. We'll see what happens.

Now back to my campaigning... I REALLY need some one to texture these ships, I can't get any production done doing both. I'm looking on about a month turn around on each model doing it myself, and I don't think anyone want's to wait that long for a mod. I also need a system designer. If anyone out there knows the abcs of system design let me know. I can do it by myself, but once again it'll never get done. So lets all pull together and get this done right. It'll be worth it I promise...

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander--Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:19 pm

what i was trying to say is that larger ships with larger holds should carry more/or larger missiles,capacity is of course just scaled by missile volumes vs holds,so you would have several versions of each missile with different volumes per payload,this way a hornet _could_ carry 50 missiles but only if they were mk1's,with a mk2 load consisting of 25,mk3 12,mk4 6, mk5 3, etc,until you exceeded your missile's hardpoint level and could no longer fit a greater-rated missile.You're probably right about the dumbfire missile not being too popular, but i remember it being a fast missile with high refire that when lead on the target properly would do a great deal of damage,the best positions being directly head on or from behind where the AI would pull one of those stunts Angel warns you about(the dralthi's exhaust is asymetric so it always pulls... hm.. left?), pulling them directly into line with your rapidly closing DF dart
also FL does not use the time_to_lock property effectively, if you make an uber-maneuverable missile for balance sake its going to need a very long time to lock

Post Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:01 am

very true void. I just don't know if it could be implemented. It'd have to be tested. I used the Dumbfire alot in WC1, It was decent if you knew how to use it. I used it alot in the Infamous Kurasawa 2 mission. I think I had a 1 outta 3 success ratio for that mission. I agree on the locking problem. I would say make and uber-torpeado too, but the lock time is too short. I think that can be modded though... Got any more points? It would be good to know this stuff before I get to invovled with this mod.

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander-->Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:49 am

sure,a few differences between freelancer and wing commander come to mind almost immediately...
1.thrusters increase speed by a much greater fraction than WC,i think they were called afterburners also
2.ships had very definite differences in handling style,pitch vs yaw etc
3.there weren't any armor upgrades in w.c. and mines were much more effective
4.you could roll your ship in wc,the FL modding for that has already been done (although it is not 100% perfect it works)
5.generally the ace pilot's croneys were less difficult with the leader being the most intelligent

just a few,small, musings
volume- equipments can utilize volume/energy drain better to make players choose more carefully what they mount,for example large guns can displace missile/cargo space but have more hitpoints than smaller guns or longer range scanners taking more room,larger capacitors, etc, which seems logical enough - i definitely think there needs to be a reason to use the inferior models of equipment like lower energy usage or cargo displacement - this is especially true for the scanner,tractor and shield components which have no trade-offs built in,its just "get the largest # that fits"

nanobots\shield batteries - you can sell many variations on the nanobots,right now i have not heard of a single mod maker making classes of nanobots\batts but its possible to increase their repair capacity;with units_per_container,i think...,along with price and volume proportionally if you want

"bleed shield"* this is a shield set to give energy back to the powerplant when it is recharging by setting the regen_drain to a negative integer. this is my proposed solution to the "run away" situation in PvP where player A loses his shield and runs around not firing a shot,too afraid of poorly balanced missiles killing him,until he gets his shield back whereupon he returns to flying at you in straight passes.By giving him more energy when his shields are damaged you encourage him to return fire & attempt to outmaneuver you rather than constantly run.
you could also make a purely defensive shield that would drain enough energy to cancel the powerplant's regenerating energy and give you very little use of your weapons until you were actually fired on,whereupon the energy drain would drop off or go negative.this could have the benefit of high capacity or regen to offset the offensive loss,the balance being between shield class\positive regen drain vs normal drain vs the ship's specific powerplant class(energy supply)
examples;you buy highest shield class bleeder for your ship,it eats a great deal of energy normally - making your weapons and thrusters less effective outside a combat environment
* - this one isn't a theory,ive tested & confirmed it works effect-wise

increase max ammo to 150 and replace its limiting function on ammo with item volume vs cargo-hold size;i.e mk1 anything taking the least space and mk10 the most - nice examples of how this would be beneficial:
1.you could carry hundreds of the smaller less effective countermeasures or 10 of the ones you know will save your butt every time,but what about how many missiles you'll need?hmm,looks like you'll have to _balance_ your loadout
2.i sure would like to see my enemies at longer ranges since i'm a in freighter with lots of energy and space to spare,so i think i'll sacrifice a little hold & profit for the security of knowing I'll spot them first.
2a.I'll take the largest scanner that'll fit in my hold and scout out the target for my buddies who have bigger guns and less need for scanner space thanks to me

tradelanes - these are bizarre,their vertical arrangement makes them confusing and sometimes frustrating to use,the idea that you would need them is kind of weird too.The hardpoints for the opposing lanes are actually named right and left so its pretty easy to just create a new "hyperspace buoy" or whatever you call it,by placing these on a nav buoy or weapons platform on the appropriate left/right side in the appropriate orientation(actually not sure if their orientation matters).also the tradelane's lights are not nearly bright enough,a fact lots of people complain about - i'd like to see if its possible to work around the tradelane buoy's l.o.d limitation by putting brighter lights with higher lods on them.also,tradelanes are capable of bending and winding in every direction,and with the probability of a straight-line being the fastest and safest path realistically being nill it doesn't make sense to build them that way.one "trade-off"(i think its ugly when its working normally anyway) is the tradelane animation continues facing whatever direction the first tradelane gate was facing,luckily you can dismount all the tradelane effects if you want,and probably replace them as well.

systems - gotta be 3d,its a shame there's no control over the vertical axis placement of waypoints though.Nebulas should neither be limited to 0 height nor single spherical shapes,rather they should be chained & overlapping irregularly to suggest clouds,also should be _much_ larger over all since real nebulas are very large - traveling to the distant edge of a nebula should be a very long and boring affair.

mainly what im suggesting is your priorities should be #1 equipment and ship balance so there is no "Best ship"\"Best gun" a.k.a the eagle\nomad guns and #2 models and textures , #3 systems , #4 music, etc

you should of course be thinking of #1 at the same time as #2,trying to maintain a consistency in physical appearnace to hold\mass\energy\handling\armor and so on - its definitely a complex issue that might be best handled by a math professor,especially considering FL's whacky units

from how long this post was you can draw the conclusion that #1 is the most intellectually stimulating aspect of modding for me,primarily because there are so many things you can change in ini's,with modeling\texturing and interface modding being the most frustrating



Edited by - Cold_Void on 4/15/2005 11:57:47 AM

Post Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:31 pm

I agree, FL tends to be very unbalanced as far as loadouts are concerned. However, I think implementing a change in statistics would require an enormous amount of bug-testing. (Not to say I won't try. ) As far as point #2 is concerned, that's my primary focus at this point of time, (since I would implement spec changes as phase 2.) I'm frustrated at the prospect of having to texture these models myslef. But anywho, what you gonna do.

Your point on Systems is very interesting. However it would complicate system design. Most Space Simulations utilized 2d system design, although it's not really necessary. I might ponder on this.

I don't really like tradelanes. Cruise Engines can be amped up to provide the exact same speed advantage, and they make more sense realisticly. Trade lanes would be nearly impossible in real life since stellar objects are constantly in motion and for a trade lane to work it would have to be constantly adjusting itself. Therefore, I think I'm going to trash them in my mod.

As far as not having armor upgrades.... That's not exactly true, privateer had two types of armor, and rf added one more.

If you can think of something else, let me know.

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander-->Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:25 pm

ah well @ armor i thought you were going for a pure WC/II mod.Yes you can change cruise speed to 2500 but it absolutely won't work in MP(so are you ruling MP out!!!?).I think the jumpbuoy concept is a very nice workaround for the differences between FL and wc.If you would like to see a nice 3d system that functions(shortest paths and all) d/l Chips' Evolutions mod and fly to guangxi province off of galileo,its pretty good although i must complain its a little too easy losing people in there,but thats due to the tradelanes layout i think.One good thing that most people don't remark on when it comes to tradelanes is that they give you someplace other than orbit to fight & concentrate people into areas where they're more likely to interact with other players.This can happen in 2d system design without tradelanes but it only occurs in systems\between points with something to entice players.Tradelanes are also the only way to move a ship at a high rate of speed without creating lag(although i still need to test my curving tradelanes for this).As for solar objects moving in RL making tradelanes impossible,this is FL and solars are indeed static*

*except when they're animated using RimShot's orbiting mod,of course these aren't dockable* unfortunately

*yet


Edited by - Cold_Void on 4/20/2005 12:46:48 PM

Post Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:59 am

well, as far as a PURE wc1/2 mod goes, it would be pretty difficult to acheive in FL due to the fact that FL basically acts more like privateer than it does any other WC game. It's my intention to be as pure WC as possible within established limits. For example, equipment and weapons are still gonna cost you money, which really doesn't apply in a pure WC mod. (The military provides them for their pilots.)

As far as Multiplayer goes, I'm definately not ruling that out, It's just I think I would concentrate on SP first until I got a working version. As far not using tradelanes, remember there are a small number of systems in FL that don't have any at all, and it's not really a problem there.

Like I said about 2d/3d systems, i hadn't ruled it out, it's just might be a little difficult to implement.

I don't know if I'd bump the cruise up to 2500, that's a little fast. Tradelanes are only 990 aren't they? that's fast enough for me.

As far as armor goes...... well, you right, the Wc games really didn't use interchangeable armor, but then again, it was miltary and this is kinda civilian. Civilians want options. I don't think armor upgrades would be in the first few phases of this mod, I'll probably add them later.

I like your equipment levels idea, do you know how to actually implement this into the scripting? Bigger, stronger but less numerous weapons, and smaller, weaker and more numerous weapons would be neat. Hmmm... you'd have a Mk I with about 50 missles, a Mk II with 40 missiles....etc, I think your on to something. I'll have to meditate on this...

Do you know of a way to slow down locking times? A big shipkiller torpeado that would take a while to lock on would be great :-D

JohnHawke
C-in-C Wing Commander-->Freelancer Project
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: here

Post Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:10 am

990 speed for the tradelanes is way off I think(hehe ok i admit it,I don't know it all! and 990 will _definitely_ create lag in a MP environment,the highest reasonable speed seems to be in the ballpark of 450,give or take 50(the reason is that when you're driving your own ship the server has to constantly run updates on your vector whereas the tradelanes control your vector for it,reducing network\processing overhead at higher speeds/thats my theory anyway) - the effects of this are demonstrated in beam weapons & flak cannons & speed mods(the last of which everyone _hates_ because cheaters use them to grab loot fast and as a side effect create massive lag for everyone else).

the missile variable you're looking for is time_to_lock-now this won't prevent you from firing the torpedo in DUMB fire mode but make it very difficult to face a large target long enough to lock, you'll get an even more restricted uber-torpedo if you reduce the missile's FOV(field of view) to a very small angle like 5 degrees so that any deviation from the target results in a miss.

time_to_lock = 0 ; how long does the target need to be in view(*not sure if this is on-screen or in the missile's FOV)
seeker_range = 1000 (what distance target-locking can begin)
seeker_fov_deg = 35 (the angle of the missile's field of view in degrees,combined with max angular velocity this determines how the missile chases its target and how easily its target is lost from sight)
detonation_dist = 4 (how close to get before detonating,very useful when combined with explosion radius-this is the property flak cannons operate off of,a near miss results in an explosion of X radius-however because these need an acceleration nearly double that of a normal missile's motor they are notorious for creating lag when players use them)
in the explosion values there is a completely unused variable that i'm interested in called impulse,by default it always = 0 but it seems to me this number will cause a target to rebound by whatever factor it operates on - i think

the ammo's variable "volume" = 0.0 by default,increase that by whatever you like to restrict capacity to hold size,i'm not sure where the default ammo limit(50 per type)is but i'm pretty sure its in a DLL file(anyone kno wanna speak up?)
-volume applies to all the equipment so you could make larger scanners and tractors and yep even armor actually have a tradeoff / I'm still trying to get an actual model for these equipments to show up but so far no luck,seems having no models is hardcoded for these equipment archetypes

Return to Freelancer General Editing Forum