I agree, there is so much that is hidden or very hard to find, and also much of the information is incomplete, or spread out in several different topics. It would be great to have a central "database" type thing. The two main threads by Chips and Accushot have tried to do this, but honestly, they are so full of unimportant info that it makes finding what you need difficult. There are so many times that I would read a tutorial or whatever, but there is a small error or incomplete info, and I forget to go back and post the correction when I found out the correct info. My big problem seems to be time. I can post at work plenty, but when I'm at home I don't seem to have the time (and for many tutorials, I need to have the freelancer ini's in front of me to remember).

Hi!
Great idea LordFjord. I also learned modding with searching the forums for good tutorials. Now I have made a big text file with the most important tutorials and also some solutions for problems I had. I have not so much time, but I will overwork this compilation and then I maybe can mail it to you or someone of lancersreactor. We then can ask for permission to use the different tutorials. That's it, I will start working on it!

tnx for the supprt guys.
lets ponder about the brainwork before we actually do anything.

Im a bit busy at the moment but i will post soemthing like a concept shortly.

Fjord

---------------------------------
Excelcia Mod Leading Developer

I'm working on the file!
At first it gives a short overview about the different INI files, and a basic description what they do (It is really short, only 4 sites

After that there are a lot of tutorials. For example:
- How to make new factions
- How to make a new ship
- How to change original ships
- How to make a new system with new bases
- How to make new encounters
And so on

I will need some time, but I will soon post some examples.
As I'm from Germany, you may correct some mistakes with the language.

Please, everyone should help us with this. By doing such a modding knowledgebase you surely learn some new things about modding!

A good idea, but I wonder if it's really going to be of some use.

First of all. Many new posters here don't read the sticky posts or tutorials at all. They just ask their question on the forum without bothering to search if there has been a post of his/her problem already.

From my experience, I haven't had any troubles finding the information I needed. Sure, some of the information got separated in more than one topic, but the "Search Forums" button is really helpful in tracking down the posts that go about a certain topic.

As you already said Wasabe, Accushot & Chips already tried to get everything into a single topic. And they succeeded in my point of view. There is even a database made by Imagine that has links to a lot of important tutorials.
Of course, it could use a new update as the last one is from November 14, 2003.

I don't mind contributing to a new database, but it's more or less inventing the wheel again to me.

ITS ABOUT DAM* TIME! You took the words right out of my small brain lord. I can't find any of the tutorials that most people don't care about, such as: a good tutorial on Fuse entries. I finally found one posted here instead of the tutorials.

Most of the tutorials are here, they are just scattered about. The database thing shows a lot of them, but not all of them. I think we should take all of the tutorials in the entire forum, and put them in one forum folder. Then, copy that forum and post on sticky under every section of the editing forums (not including things like modding teams and stuff like that). Each of the tutorials would have one thread meaning when there are updates, the moderator of that thread (the one who wrote the tutorial) would make a new post for the update. That way, the people wouldn't go asking questions under the tutorial. If they keep doing that, it will be like this: post one: the tutorial / posts 2-57: a lot of questions / post 58: update to the tutorial / posts 59-100: a lot more questions.
Each tutorial would have one question thread where people could ask questions.

Because no offense (please note that this is my fav. site on the web), but this place is very disorganized as far as tutorials go.... no no, correction, it isn't disorganized by the people who make it, but by the ppl who post on it and make tutorials and such. Cause im thankful ppl make time to write up tutorials so i can do the modding I do, but does it hurt to take 2 minutes (probably less) to put the tutorial in the correct place?

Maybe (just a suggestion) there should be a completely new forum all together for tutorials and help and such. And have it on the home page so if they go to the forums for something like that, they will see the other forum first.

I'm sorry if ive offended anyone and i know ppl work hard for this , but sheesh...

Ok, I'm gonna breathe now...

StarSeeker//\ International Pirate
\////
\//
\/

The reason it is disorganised is because its informal. People make tutorials and post them. There is no vetting process as to the quality of the tutorials (please see the "creating single player missions" to illustrate my answer about complete lack of vetting - that wasn't a tutorial, it was a bit of guesswork as to the meanings of two entries on the most complex FL subject...........why he called it a tutorial i have no idea), and therefore you get great tutorials (Drizzla) mixed in with that and Milkshapes weapons one (which i posted angrily in as he couldn't even find the nomad guns!!!!!).

Others used tutorials to ask questions in, or posted a tutorial when they only knew very little about what they were doing. Some rushed them out for some strange reason - making a tutorial as soon as they grasped the edges of a concept. Others made tutorials that already existed, and actually added nothing to them. However, if you complained, edited, removed ANY of their work, then they would probs have never bothered again...........and neither would anyone else.

If you have the time, dedication and above all - the knowledge and understanding, then by all means - go for it. However, if you aren't a "master of the ini" - then writing turtorials is a bad idea, as it can become more confusing.

If you want to start it, go for it - but use forethought into layout, presentation and how to link it all together. Obviously a small "consortium" of contributors would benefit best of towards this, and an overall "over-seeing" person who checks it all etc. You could do well to decide upon formats though, and certainly "editors", as it will need to be understandable and easy to follow - and the worst thing about writing your own tutorials is that you never see where people might have difficulty!!!

^^^thats exactly what this is about.

Get the stuff into a standardized format, get the tuts together, let them review by the "masters of ini".
the problems with many tuts were that they hold partially disturbing or wrong info - they were never or very rarely updated. I see this with my own tuts. I could LMAO if i read them now. The point is to collect and correct them.
I am not the brightest modder out there (Wasabe would be that, ROFL), but i have a good general knowledge of a lot of areas (Excelcia mod is up & running well after all ). Still, i could never do this alone. Thats why I ask if ppl are interested and if they would help.

Fjord

Edit:
The formatting is important to make it understandable. I could imagine a well-linked html document collection being a good solution to this.
I have no experiance in html or webdesign - i dont know what is easy to make and maintain, maybe frames "could" be an idea - definately some kind of menu to make all th sections (ships, weapons, systems, ..), submenus of those and so on. Display the info in the main frame. Open up (commented) examples in a new window or frame.
This needs a lot more detail thinking though - i dont want to discuss it here. Discussions in threads about such things usually dont go very well.
Something like a template for the tuts, descriptions and examples is a MUST.
IMO this "project" would need a seperate forum or something similar.
(we "could" host it @Excelcia without problems, but ppl who want contribute to it - many ppl from TLR would need to register - not everyone likes to do that)
I am winning to do the framework, I would need someone with html-knowledge to "convert" the stuff and link it. I would start ubilding up the tuts, based on my knowledge. Anyone is welcome to help - but it needs a bit organization (no need for 5 seperate weapon tuts). Experianced modders (the TLR vets) are welcome to verify all entries to make sure things are "right".
Noone is perfect but many eyes see usually more.

ah, a lil note: no cheats no cloaks and such stuff will be included.
tuts and examples based on plain vanilla FL inis (and other files).
Examples can also hold individual content (like a big badass snipergun with explosion on impact, ammo usage, mounted on torp slot - stuff like that, things that CAN be modded maybe if they never were meant to be used that way.)

hmm, im starting to get a rough image on how it will look like

Fjord
---------------------------------
Excelcia Mod Leading Developer

Edited by - LordFjord on 6/29/2004 11:55:35 PM

Hey I don't think that I'm a "master of the ini", but I know some things about editing. To make such a big tutorial, we need lots of people. Everyone can write what he knows and all the others can correct him. We have to work together to make such a compilation.
If we finally got it, I think the newbies will download it, because you only have to search for keywords to find what you want (If you know the Tutorial compilation of bartsimpsondude2000 from gamefaqs.com you can immagine what I mean)
As I said before I made one file for myself, which has lots of tutorials. I copied all the tutorials I used for my mod (The Monkeys) and also some others. I'm overworking this file now. After that the whole file or parts of it can be used to make a compilation of the most tutorials.

Hi again!
I'm still working on my tutorial compilation and thought about a possible structur of the final version:

1. What tools do you need for modding (e.g.: INI-editing --> SDK 1.3)
2. A basic overview abou the INIs and what they do for new modders (e.g.: weapon_equip.ini --> properties of the different weapons (missiles, mines, cruise disruptors, torpedoes, guns, turrets) and which model they are referring to)
3. What do the different entries in the INI-files mean (e.g.: constants.ini: cruising_speed --> How fast is the cruisespeed of the ships) (I know that this is lots of work, but at first we need only the important entries. I think that this is important, because I still do not know some entries that i think are necessary to mod some things)
4. Different tutorials (e.g.: Creating new factions; Creating new systems; etc.)
5. Other hints for modding or maybe something like a F.A.Q. which deals with special problems or questions about modding

That's it. What do you think. Is it possible to do that and is this a good structur. Maybe you got a better idea.

Someone knows the Unreal Wiki? Its perfect!
Something like that would be great fo FL! If someone knows PHP good enough...

If you dont know what I'm talking about... look at this:
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/

every modder can post his knoledge there (about the unreal engine, of couse...)

Ok...

We are talking too much and doing not much...
Im the guy that can help you guys alot on that matter.

NOT on the FL Knowledge, that Im very rookie just studing alot and also suffering among many splited and losted subjects about a same thing... Amazes me while looking around I found almost 10 threads asking or explaning "How to make a new system".... and if you mix the 10 togheter we have only 1 very complete.

How I can help this?

I already have few sites related with other games I play and I use for them also a forum system, in that case, Invision Board, Im also a modder of Invision Board with a few mods made, anyway due my php and jscript knowledge.

I have a 30Mb server 24/7 online to host this site for us, I could setup a Inivision Board with whole design and forums in less them 3 hours since you guys give me the "OK, lets see."

From what I read I think that forum should be TOTALY for modders. And with Forums organized on modding idea or area. That should be forums LOCKED for new postings, only Moderators being able to post.

On each Forum could exist a SINGLE thread for questions, the ONLY open thread for visitors. Also no one besides moderatos would be able to create threads.

For example of a idea..

- Weapons Building (Forum Locked)
------> Modifing a Existing Weapon. (Thread Locked)
------> Building a New Weapon. (Thread Locked)
------> Building Energy Missiles. (Thread Locked)
------> Public Questions. (Thread Open)

So.. Im up for help you guys... let me try build this system? You guys will have to help me just on organize wich forums subjects has to be, like with one goes where.

Waiting answers,

Ketaros
msn: [email protected]

I can only repeat... A Wikipedia system is exactly what you' re searching for. its open to ALL, everyone can post tutorials, guides or whatever and everyone can edit or comment everything. Of course it would need moderators...

I mean it functions for the Unreal modding community, why shouldn't it function for this one?
I'm sure the admin of TLR would agree to host it, if its done right...
It would allow the most complete modding-knowledgebase for FL.

Well...

I personaly doesnt like of Wikipedia.... I used it thru sometime in a modding comunity of friends related with NWN(neverwinter nights)...

I made a scratch here... I ask you all take a look:
FLMODDB


As I told before, Im not a great modder of tutorial writer of FL.. so If you guys aproove a idea like that one that I scratched lets get our hands on work, Im sure it will improove alot our modding comunity.

Waiting answers...

Ketaros

Edited by - Ketaros on 7/2/2004 1:14:06 PM

Edited by - Ketaros on 7/2/2004 1:14:42 PM