hey wanabe first, the NAV_<shapename> is for the navmap. hmmm, well from looking at the entries in solararch.ini the only thing i can suggest is changing the type = MISSION_SATELLITE to type = STATION in rm_space_freeport01's definition and see if it helps...

+++ out of cheese error - redo from start +++

UPDATE : Just tested that change, it works just fine

*edit : the archetypes for battleships are there... someone is bound to have modded it somewhere... I'm gonna be on shift for a few days - possibly till wednesday so i'll have a look then. It'll be good in my mod too

+++ out of cheese error - redo from start +++

Edited by - Anton on 5/4/2004 6:11:57 PM

Edited by - Anton on 5/4/2004 6:23:41 PM

lol, yeah I should have known about the shape having to do with the navmap.

So, you said it worked by changing the type to STATION? Do you mean that the base actually fired back at you in a mission? Or just that it didn't crash? I never tried that because I figured weapons platforms are also set to "MISSION SATELLITE" (some of them are anyways).

hmm, I'll take a look and experiment. Thanks!!

P.S. As for battleships - yeah they work fine (in fact, I did a server side mod to add battleship missions, can be downloaded here). But they just don't fire back. . . but the same is for stations, so I figured if we could get stations to fire back at you, then we could also get battleships to fire back.

Edited by - wanabe on 5/4/2004 8:09:17 PM

Ok, more insight. I changed killablesolars.ini file again, and figured out something. I changed the archetype and loadout of the large space station to that of a small weapons platform. This is the change I made:

[KillableSolar
nickname = rm_space_freeport01_pi_D10
solar_type = Big_Solar
string_id = 9
faction = fc_lr_grp
archetype = small_wplatform <-- changed this line
loadout = small_weapon_platform_pi_01 <-- changed this line
hitpoints = 3506, 4800
difficulty = 0.166195, 0.311430
pilot_choices = 3

And it worked just fine - when I got to the solar it was a small weapons platform, and it did indeed shoot back at me. However, only missiles were shot at me, yet the loadout clearly says it should have guns too. So that led me to look a little closer, and it seems that when missions are created with solars, the solars have NO TURRETS. So there is nothing for the weapons to attach to. The weapons that do work are the ones that aren't attached to Hpturret. Anything that attaches to a turret hardpoint will not work because the turret's aren't created.

So then, could we add weapons to a station without using the turret hardpoints?

um, to the first question - it worked as in shooting at me and at the outcast support ships second question - either make copies of guns that will mount on the particular hardpoints availabe (hp_type = bit in gun definition) or new turrets that act like the gun you want (say a station using silverfires on you )

+++ out of cheese error - redo from start +++

oh, look in solararch.ini - the stations DO have turrets otherwise i was hallucinating about being shot last night (maybe it was the stilton & mushroom sandwich... wanders off seeing small gnomes piloting teapots...)

+++ out of cheese error - redo from start +++

"Psycho-ceramics. We are the cracked pots of mankind.
Would you like me to decipher a Rorschach for you?"
- Dean Harding, 'One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest' by
Ken Kesey

argh, sry, doublepost.

delete this one pls.

tnx

Edited by - LordFjord on 5/5/2004 2:11:30 AM

your problems are in the loadout files.
your stations had no proper loadouts, and using loadouts of other solars usually fials because the gun mount names are different.
my suggestion is this:
add a custom loadout to SOLAR\loadouts.ini
look up the revolute mount names in the solar's .cmp/.3db file with utf-edit.
create your own loadout, then they will fire back.
edit the guns in weapon_equip.ini to make them more effitient

i hope this helped,

Fjord

P.S.: i bet u can also give solars shields, try that and let me know if it worked, thats something i always wanted to try but had no time for it.

---------------------------------
Excelcia Mod Leading Developer

Fjord, I'm pretty sure my loadouts.ini file is just fine. For example, here is the loadout (minus the lights to save space) for Freeport1 in Omega 3, which of course works because that base will fire back at you:

[Loadout
nickname = space_mining01_co_01
equip = infinite_power
equip = ge_s_scanner_02
equip = sfx_rumble_trading_depot
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_01
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_02
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_03
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_04
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_05
equip = co_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_06

Here is the loadout of the same station that is created in a random mission. As you can see, the loadouts are pretty much identical, except that they use different guns (the gun entries in weapon_equip.ini are there and they are fine)

[Loadout
nickname = rm_space_freeport01_pi_01
equip = infinite_power
equip = ge_s_scanner_02
equip = armor_scale_9
equip = sfx_rumble_trading_depot
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_01
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_02
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_03
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_04
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark02, HpTurret_S1_05
equip = pi_Small_station_turret01_mark03, HpTurret_S1_06


The entries that are a little different are the solararch enteries. For FP1, here is the arch entry:

[Solar
nickname = space_mining01
ids_name = 60215
ids_info = 60216
type = STATION
DA_archetype = solar\dockable\space_mining01.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_tink.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
LODranges = 0, 2000, 15000
mass = 10000.000000
open_sound = depot_open_sound
close_sound = depot_close_sound
docking_sphere = berth, HpDockMountA, 4.500000, Sc_open dock1
docking_sphere = berth, HpDockMountB, 4.500000, Sc_open dock2
docking_sphere = moor_medium, HpDockMountC, 5.000000
docking_sphere = moor_large, HpDockMountD, 5.000000
docking_camera = 0
solar_radius = 600
shape_name = NAV_depot
hit_pts = 999999961690316250000000000000000000.000000

And for the random mission generated solar arch:

[Solar
nickname = rm_space_freeport01
ids_name = 329689
ids_info = 329689
type = MISSION_SATELLITE
DA_archetype = solar\dockable\space_freeport01.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_tink.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
LODranges = 0, 2000, 15000
mass = 10000.000000
solar_radius = 600
shape_name = NAV_depot
explosion_arch = explosion_space_mod_base
destructible = true
hit_pts = 4800
fuse = fuse_space_mining01, 0.000000, 1

The only thing that jumps out at me as being a possible difference here is the line:

fuse = fuse_space_mining01, 0.000000, 1

What does that line do? I know it refrences something in the .cmp file for the ship, but what effect does it have when used here? If it was taken out, what effect would it have? I'll have to wait till I get home later to day to try it out. . .

Edited by - wanabe on 5/5/2004 9:00:35 AM

If you plonk a station in a system without a pilot for it, then it won't shoot either. It needs a pilot line. Logic would dictate that giving your random solars a pilot will enable it to fire back. To further back this up, everything that fires has a pilot - except the ships.....no pilot in loadout . Tradelane rings have them, docking rings have them, stations have them, weapons platofrms have them and jumpgates have them.

try adding a line to the loadout - i have never tried it, so i don't know if it works, but experimentation is how you find things out.
Try adding a pilot line to killablesolars.ini

and would it be possible to let the solars move?

Yeah Chips, I actually did add in a pilot, but I don't think that it's necessary because there is already a pilot reference in the killablesolars.ini file. But in any case, the actual turrets don't even show up (no graphics for them), so there is nothing for the pilots to fire anyways.

@Anton - Can you try that again and check to see if the station really fired at you, and if you could see its turrets? No matter what I do, the station never has any visible guns (nor does it fire on me).

try making pilot choices = 1 instead, or make some more changes - like these lines:

Swap:
solar_type = Big_Solar

For:
solar_type = Defensive_Solar

Which is what weapons platforms have - and you know those shoot.....


Try changing it in the solararch.ini file - they TYPE=mission_solar to Station or Weapon_platform etc - experiment is what i mean. I might not come up with the solution, but if me sitting here chucking out suggestions gets YOU into the thinking mode for EXPERIMENTING - then its all good.

Experiment - try things, people keep asking for help on subjects JUST because they don't explore enough! Give it a go - look at what else the files are linked to as well, see what else can be done etc......

Check pilots_populations.ini file - in missions folder - i found this in one minute:

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_rm_solar_easiest
gun_id = gun_rm_solar_easy_style_a
missile_id = missile_rm_solar_slow

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_rm_solar_easy
gun_id = gun_rm_solar_med_style_a
missile_id = missile_rm_solar_slow

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_rm_solar_hard
gun_id = gun_rm_solar_hard_style_a
missile_id = missile_rm_solar_med

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_rm_solar_hardest
gun_id = gun_rm_solar_ace_style_a
missile_id = missile_rm_solar_fast

Change them to match these that DO work:
[Pilot
nickname = pilot_solar_easiest
gun_id = gun_solar_easy_style_a
missile_id = missile_solar_slow

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_solar_easy
gun_id = gun_solar_med_style_a
missile_id = missile_solar_med

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_solar_hard
gun_id = gun_solar_hard_style_a
missile_id = missile_solar_med

[Pilot
nickname = pilot_solar_hardest
gun_id = gun_solar_ace_style_a
missile_id = missile_solar_fast


Add loadouts lines to the solararch.ini file entry for the random missions solars instead!!!

Eg:
Notice that random missions weapons platforms have a loadouts line in there? The stations don't - give them one instead!! Maybe the loadout line in the killablesolars.ini file is crap!!

[Solar
nickname = rm_wplatform
LODranges = 0, 200, 400, 4000
ids_name = 329680
ids_info = 329680
type = MISSION_SATELLITE
DA_archetype = solar\misc\weapons_platform_lod.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_dockable03.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
mass = 10000.000000
loadout = weapon_platform
solar_radius = 300
shape_name = NAV_weaponplatform
destructible = true
explosion_arch = explosion_wplatform
hit_pts = 6600

Make it be the same for the stations then!!

[Solar
nickname = rm_space_freeport01
ids_name = 329689
ids_info = 329689
type = MISSION_SATELLITE
DA_archetype = solar\dockable\space_freeport01.cmp
material_library = solar\Solar_mat_tink.mat
material_library = fx\envmapbasic.mat
envmap_material = envmapbasic
LODranges = 0, 2000, 15000
mass = 10000.000000
solar_radius = 600
shape_name = NAV_depot
explosion_arch = explosion_space_mod_base
destructible = true
hit_pts = 12800
fuse = fuse_space_mining01, 0.000000, 1
loadout = space_freeport01_co_01


Try stuff - give it a go - and see what happens....bear in mind you will need to change ALOT of these, as you never know what station you will get in the mission .