This is getting very interesting to say the least.

Giskard:

You are acting completely irrationally. So what you are basically saying is that you were prefer IF I DON'T list anyone in the readme from now on?

Would you of reacted the same if this was done to you or to any other mod.

Do you think I purposely gave you this attention. You helped with TNG freely as did many others.

Lets reverse the tables. You get the letter and I am named. Is it your fault you added me to the credits of your readme like a good person giving credit does?

I am only lashing out because you guys swung the whip first, now I am striking back. If you can't take it, don't give it.

I don't understand you in these last few posts, they make no sence.

PS Hu 8.1 = 3.5 meg, tons of ships, lots of new systems and no bandwidth problems at all thank you very much. I accept full credit for my forward thinking in this area.

What does this have to do with anything? I have not said anything bad about Hostile Universe at all. You were a great help in the stuff you helped with TNG. Also don't forget you created the RINGWORLD too which was an immese help.

As for copyright Reynen you need to understand what your copyrighting. Your dont have any update rights to freelancer for starters. Your work uses a command set that was copyrighted by Microsoft which effectively means they have all the rights to all the inis not you and not me.

The moment you pack a ship as a cmp file you are using microsoft file format and you lose the rights to that ship when its in cmp format too. You do not how ever lose the design rights or the original models in none MS formats. Which is why MS still have to ask you for permission to use your work if they like it and why they usually make you sign over everything including your nick name when they are interested.

I'm not sure about this, I will talk to some copyright lawyers and find out exactly what the deal is.

Your way of thinking is equivalent too the following:

I make a contract for a client to do work in word document format. According to your logic since MS owns word and it's format, that contract now belongs to Microsoft as well as the client seeking services when they sign that contract.

As for the bandwidth and mod ripping, do not embarrish your self further by getting on that topic. Remember HU is 100% mine and Version 1 can still be seen in several peoples work even today thanks to TLR download area. Of which none of them had permission to use my work at that point. Also remember you chose to make a 20meg mod, not chips or other players.

I am really confused about this. Who said HU isn't yours? I never said that. Anyone who says HU isn't yours is an idiot. yes the mod did turn out to be about 32 megs, but in comparison, mine contains alot more stuff then yours. I wanted to add alot of content, you focused only on certain things.

That is what makes our mods unique.

Look I don't want to fight man, we've been friends before this and I don't see why you are all bent out of shape. If you think I did this to get you in trouble then you didn't know me at all nor consider me your friend.

Frankly I'm to a point I don't care what MS does. I am getting rid of the company tommorow and taking down the offical website at www.starfyrestudios.com for now. If they try and convict us on any of these areas then they will HAVE to convict all. Look at the following.

1: We do not have nor sell any merchandise.
2: We make no money from this
3: We pay alot of money to maintain this (does this sound like profit)
4: If we get convicted of violating the DMCA based on game modification then it applies to all mods because they do the exact same thing.
5: If we get convicted of violating the EULA based on game modification then it applies to all mods because they do the exact same thing.

One thing I will do which is un-disputeable is protect spawn's artwork and ships he has done for TNG. Microsoft has no claim to that.

Now we can continue to argue like children or grow up and move on and deal with things as they come. Your choice. I will defend what I think is right and not even MS with thier 45 billion in the bank will change my mind.

Besides I've always said I will end up dead before I end up in jail. The day they come to arrest me is the day they will be forced to kill me. It's quicker and alot less painful for once you goto jail your life is over. Society will not accept you and you will never find a good job. The world and governments are too corrupt as it is. Only with those with money have power and justice is determined by how much you have for legal fees. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Edited by - Reynen on 06-10-2003 09:41:32

X2 anyone?

Hmm well then lets just make it X3 and be done with it. I don't care anymore.

Whose next up to bat.

NEXT

Edited by - Reynen on 06-10-2003 09:57:08

Well well well...

I think its been fairly obvious that you can only copyright your models when not in freelancer format and that only owners of the original code can compilation copyright their software. That means that you have to be the original copyrights owner to get a compilation copyright to over the addition of code. Not any old programmer can go modify code and say its his claiming that all his time changing code makes it his right to own. Bah.

The only way you can make code that you have created COMPLETELY owned by you is if it works on several games etc because it is not under any specific gamign code, and because this cannot be done its plainly simple isn't it.... YOU CANT!!! You can claim ownership of intellectual property of ideas contained in your mods so if MS uses them you can sue them and that is your right, but MS isn't as stupid as you think, quite the contrary and they have the money to keep the ball in your court....

Reynen, you don't explain yourself except say things contrary to what Microsoft has said, now of these two I'm more inclined to believe MS's opinion when concerning what has been said and the actions therein.

If you took one second to consider what you have done to everyone who has kindly helped or upported your mod you would have added a big disclaimer saying that they do not have any connection to Starfyre other than that they contributed modified code freely. You mention there was a disclaimer, it obviously didn't point out many things when read or else MS would have left the brilliant modders of this community alone....

You couldn't copyright the system bcause it is designed in freelancer using DA(MS's)'s code therefore not your property, you don't seem to get this through your head. And if the lawyer you went through didn't inform you of said infringment they are very shonky indeed.

The fact that you are labelling other people to effectively take them down with you shows that you MUST have been doing wrong to turn your back on an entire community because of what MS has done completely unrelated to the community other than being the owner of said software...

I must admit that MS are taking a less than happy stance about it but you don't see people who make mods for Quake, Q2 and Q3 trying to make money WITHOUT the permissions of ID etc. Hell, ID promotes making mods and if you make money they make a compromise to keep the mods going most of the time.

As do the creators of Unreal, UT, UT2003, Unreal 2... Look at how hey encourage modding... If a game owner does not encourage, chances are they don't want mods. However MS has not stepped in to draw the line until now. They have given us infinite patience and Reynen & Starfyre not only crossed the line by acting like it is all theirs, they danced on it by claiming they own MS's code! If someone came into my house and started using stuff like it was theirs I'd be pissed to!

Like so many people have said, best thing for Starfyre to do is wipe the tears from their eyes, stop all their copyright nonsense and defending of their actions and plead forgiveness. If it doesn't save you, you might have gotten MS off the backs of the others you pulled into this like the selfish children you, mainly Reynen, are acting like....

You should also stop squeeling about Reynenmod, it may have been the first major mod but you never tried to copyright it so stop comparing them to each other. You say you didn't have anything to do with the store selling merchandise but if you indeed took materials without permission you prolly did but deny it. The biggest thing about TNG was that you essentially REMOVED their game from its own world and placed in your own. My advice try to start your own game developer and make your own space game with TNG in mind... keep everything original and who knows, maybe MS will buy you and get you onto bigger and better things?

Essentially we should try to get a better relationship with MS.. like that of the mod community with ID etc Maybe telling MS all about your plans with the mod and fleshing out it with them would have made them happier?

Take it on the chin and get over it,
What's done is done.

PS. The apes and robot planets I'm guessing were easter egg extras... I don't see commander keen in doom doing anything but being dead....

PPS. I will also be writing to microsoft to air my displeasure of their course of action. But will also be stating that we need a better realtionship with modding community and game owner...

just a thought, but you have automatic copyright to your code
Any Artwork, any programm, any written text is automatic protected with copyright, just to shut your stupid claims down sput.

Another side-note, if I am not mistaken, microsoft use open-source scripting stuff for the ingame movies ... according to the logic of some here, this would mean that microsoft can not have the copyright of freelancer
which for sure is absurd

Edited by - Apocalypse on 06-10-2003 11:33:25

Microsoft have used the LUA scripting language under the conditions for LUA usage. From the license of LUA v.5.0:
Lua 5.0 license
Copyright © 2003 Tecgraf, PUC-Rio.
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software" ), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The complete text of the LUA copyright statement can be found at http://www.lua.org/copyright.html

Dutch63

Edited by - Dutch63 on 06-10-2003 13:15:24

Reynen - i pay for bandwidth on my site - 50gig a month thankyou, and most poeple also submit it too here, which stumps up on bandwidth. Bandwidth is your personal choice, so you cannot argue with that point as many of us are using sites that we pay for. Give up already on bandwidth - you sound like you are trying to make out that you are the only person who pays out of everyone. Do you forget that TLR has some 200 odd mods here up for DL, yet they never moan about it......nor does Giskard, and he hosts a hell of alot more than starfrye - Now round to the point that makes me sodding fuming!!!!

---

That mod was also the FIRST to use stuff such as player contrlled gunboats, cruiser, and battleships. Implemented DOCKING RINGS and later on in TNG develooping DOCKING WITH CINEMATICS FOR LARGE SHIPS.

We also had beam weapons and lots of other new equipment not seen before which alot of peopl ended up copying into other mods.

---

So - you are claiming that you developed and implemented the ghost docking ring? Nope - not correct. First flyable capship - NO NOT CORRECT, first beam weapon -NO NOT CORRECT, docking cinematics - SORRY - YOU DID NOT MAKE MOVIE FOOTAGE HERE - THEY WERE IN GAME, anyone who makes those changes can claim those SAME effects here. Weapons - SORRY - ANYONE CAN MAKE NEW WEAPONS HERE - so stop talking all this bull. If you claim any of this stuf f- you are just lying completely. Here is why:

As stated by another member of your team - you guys did it all yourselves, not ripping off others work - so THEREFORE WHEN SOMEONE DOES THE SAME AS WELL -SORTS OUT A DOCKING PROBLEM FROM WANDERERS POST ABOUT IT, THEN YOU GUYS CANNOT CLAIM INFRINGEMENT ON YOUR 'IDEA' - now this comes from a memeber of your team. You did NOT make the flyable capships at all - so there fore you CANNOT say that cause you included them into a larger mod that you own the rights. You have basically behaved like a small child for the past several months - and as for the DISCRIMINATION claims - well that is childish.

THEY are GOING AFTER YOU DUE TO TRYING TO COPYRIGHT something you have NO rights over . GET OVER YOURSELF MAN. Perhaps your copyright addon idea was due to the fact that you could then legally charge for it? I have no idea, and i don't care. Its bad that you guys lost all - yes, sorry, but why when it was down to your own greed and selfishness are you determined to ruin the fun for everyone else????????
COS THAT IS WHAT IT SEEMS YOU ARE TRYING TO DO.

Now - you are bickering about many things - but for me it was this claiming of these parts of mods (flyable capships etc) that you were trying to ensure no-one else could use that is really offensive. You cannot claim that stuff - anyone could have figured it out.
So you made the first large mod - means nothing to me fella - cos i wasn't here to see it - so what? If you made those features first and informed the community of it, fine, but if its down to this 'i put that into a mod before you' idea of others work - then forget it - i woulda quite happily said try to sue me over it, then phoned Microsoft myself.

Tough luck- you guys were attempting to strangle the modding community out of several mods that make large mods fun. You are in essence saying that those should have your sole right, etc - and for that - i have lost any sympathy towards you or TNG.
Simply put:

YOU got rumbled due to trying to copyright - NOT for modding as such. Microsoft are more than aware of us modders - however, they choose to look the other way, UNTIL SOMEONE OVERSTEPPED THE BOUNDARY. Perhaps your copyright addon idea was due to the fact that you could then legally charge for it? I have no idea, and i don't care.
I just wish that you would be man enough to spot that it was yOUR GREED AND ERROR THAT GOT YOU INTO THIS - so WHY are you so hell bent on ruining the WHOLE of the modding community cos you find it 'unfair' - aint trying to limit mods for the rest of us through copyright as unfair????? If not - then I am glad Microsoft busted you.

Now you can copy and paste what you have said above again - but honestly - i see someone who has had his toy ruined, so out of spite he wants to ruin everyone elses. that is a FACT that you CANNOT dispute. YOU took it too far and caused this on YOURSELF. So your bad actions brough this on, don't try making your selfish actions ruin this for the rest of us
Chips

Edited by - chips on 06-10-2003 14:06:39

"just a thought, but you have automatic copyright to your code
Any Artwork, any programm, any written text is automatic protected with copyright, just to shut your stupid claims down sput.

Another side-note, if I am not mistaken, microsoft use open-source scripting stuff for the ingame movies ... according to the logic of some here, this would mean that microsoft can not have the copyright of freelancer
which for sure is absurd "


Sigh, you "insert negative comments here" SEs always come out of hiding in the most inappropriate time.. to borrow someone's words.. did you fail Reading and Comprehension 101

You did, seeing as you flamed zop on msn with excessive words of "care" for no reason! oh my!

begone!

if you don't understand the word above, here, i know the following languages. hopefully you can understand one of them!

barra zi anna kia kanpa - Summerian
идите ад далеко - Russian

Alright, this is getting way to personal. Before this thread will deteriorate and become a personal flame war, I´m locking this.

*Click*




Hope is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.