Konflict, you can do anything except be Stupid(TM).. such as selling stuff (or even the idea), or trying to copyright..

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Releasing a mod will not get you in trouble with Microsoft, so long as you maintain the idea your mod is "open source" and can be used by anyone. To attempt to protect what is NOT yours through pursueing any form of copywrite protection on your work it not wise.

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Giskard wrote:

Im going to need reference from 4 sources and a 90% pass on an IQ test from any body who wants to use my ships in the future.

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First reference source :

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#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
printf( "Hello World\n" ) ;

return (0) ;
}

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Please advise which other type of reference sources you need, and send me the IQ test

Dutch63

Edited by - Dutch63 on 06-10-2003 01:32:22

Iam not trying to flame your Sputnik66, I hear what you say, but bascially that sentance sums it up to me as ....

wrap your mod work into one wonderful zip file and give it to everyone on the internet to claim as there own? , excuse me if Ive missed something, but how would a modder then protect their work and microsofts? or are we back to square one where the "mod" is now typically a free for all?

You can do anything you want with your mod besides: make any type of profet, or copyrighting the material, as it's copyrighted under Microsoft.

Hello all.

Microsoft are not saying we cannot make mods for fun and release them for free. I have the entire message here and they are not sending a cease and dissist order to all mod makers for making mods.

They are trying to stop Starfryer from doing 2 things.

1) Forming a company which will make a profit from the TNG mod.
2) Copyrighting work created by microsoft.

Who do you think owns the command IDinfo and iDinfo1 through 3 ?
Microsoft does and their use is restricted in the games Eula.

You cannot copyright work based on work thats already copyrighted.

So its not a ban on mod making, its ban on stupid things such as assuming you could copyright an ini just because you wrote an ini and that the owner of the commands used in that ini be happy about it.

Then we come to all the contributors they didnt bother asking for permission from either.

Asking is only polite and people like to be asked, taking is out right rude and people love sueing rude people.

Anyway the only thing you can truely copyright is your milkshape models. The original ones not based on a film or TV program that you build your self.

Giskard

Edited by - giskard on 06-10-2003 01:58:24

Thankyou Giskard, that little post right there makes us all breathe alot easier! So obviously even though lots of peoeple give Microsoft alot of stick - they are nice and tolerant to us! Good too hear!

Now then - that was enough delay with abaited breath!!

MOD MOD MOD dammit!!

Chips

p.s - Giskard, any ideas on the prob i posted in your forum around sept 25th? Its got me baffled - unless you cannot take missions over a certain level of course (in SP that is). Everything seems to be correct in the Mbases.ini file, but i still cannot get missions - i have parameters (vignettes) a plenty in the system as well!

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Anyway the only thing you can truely copyright is your milkshape models. The original ones not based on a film or TV program that you build your self. - Giskard

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This is what I was looking for, how does one copyright that specific work, The model and skin that is not based on any particular film, program other design etc?

Example

This model and mesh is copyright to myself Mr x.
Game x is copyrighted to Company Y.

I should see a lawyer..but we all know how much those cost!

well can u copyright your own ideas at all like i develope a mod and do my personal info cards and design of weps but using ms stuff, is that allowd cause one of my new weps is called the anti-absorber pulse cannon with my personal info cards but the projectile is that of a kusari gunboat maingun, and can i say since i made that i wish that no one uses it wothout my concent is that allowd cause its my idea and what not?

Mess With the Best Die lIke the Rest
Check out my Freelancer Website FLPoliceclan.tripod.com

The idea may be yours, but the effect was Microsofts which was also copyrighted.

I think you will find that although its using its 'info cards' added on, it is still in microsoft owned ini files - such as weapon_equip etc etc - you might be modding them - but you are still using them as well - at which point you cannot copyright that part. However, i think the idea of 'copyrighting' ideas is silly.
Of course no-one wants to do 200 hours of work and then have soeone else just lift it out of the ini files, but thats the risks we are going to have to take when modding. The good thing is though that they iwll have to produce their own infocards, or spend ages searching for the redundant numbers in yours to go over them. Why? Cause if they use yours I imagine they will get a right good bashing if its just obviously lifted from what you did.

Ships though are a different realm - and i think i would be incredlous of anyone who used ships without permission.

If you are producing a large though - its better because any little errors or parts left out will crash their game to death - and without knowledge of how to deal with that, they won't then be able do sort probs out. I think that any method though of preventing access to the files which you have modded is treading on very dangerous ground though - so there isn't alot you can do. Its just the way it goes.

Parts of it may suck - but if no-one had shared knowledge in the first place, where would we all be? Well - wanderer and Giskard would be okay - but the rest of us wouldn't know what we are doing

Anyways - anyone know how to get in touch with 'Paul' - the man who made the ships like the Whale by the way? His email addy seems ot be wrong, and the website isn't working!

Subxero:

Apparently according to everyone you can't protect anything whether it was your idea or not. SO it's free game for anyone to copy. That means if you spent 2 months creating it, anyone can jsut copy and paste it. I know better now. No one will respect your work, so why bother respecting theres.

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CHIPS:

For the last friggen time.

WE DID NOT EVER SELL ANY MERCHANDISE. That was NOT MY COMPANY that made the t-shirts, that was http://www.gamesthing.com/

WE DID NOT RUN THAT COMPANY. WE ALSO NEVER SAW ANY MONEY ON SALES THAT WERE MADE, THAT COMPANY ACTUALLY SHUT DOWN IT'S STORE.

I have also PAID for the bandwidth usage for peopel downloaing TNG. Oh wait....BANDWIDTH IS FREE THAT'S RIGHT, THE INTERNET IS COMPLETELY FREE. Even the bandwidth Lancer i using nwo is free....yep good thing.

Also some peple agree with the conflicting versions. Then EVERY SINGLE mod that does that needs to be hit too, othewise it's discrimination. Oh did I mention that the new rebalance was going that route, as well as new universe, and other mods currently on the servers!!! Look at the 1.77 one!!

You apparently are ALSO saying if ANYONE puts in anti-cheat methods they are automatically in trouble. MS has their files ecrypted. Breaking that excryption IS A VIOLATION OF THE DMCA, SO HENSE ANY MODDER THAT DOES IT IS IN VIOLATIOIN. We added our own encryption, YET you are saying those same laws don't apply? Double standards.

ALSO DID PEOPEL FORGET ABOUT REYNENMOD!!! That was one of the FIRST major mods out that had a number of stuff that TNG did. That was back in MARCH / APRIL - LONG BEFORE alot of these other mods came out. Michael dan even BASED rebalance mod OFF reynenmod and I gave him permission to use it.

That mod was also the FIRST to use stuff such as player contrlled gunboats, cruiser, and battleships. Implemented DOCKING RINGS and later on in TNG develooping DOCKING WITH CINEMATICS FOR LARGE SHIPS.

We also had beam weapons and lots of other new equipment not seen before which alot of peopl ended up copying into other mods.

Reynenmod was the base for many mods today and MANY people copied them!! We created the stuff in the first place!!! SO why are people accusing us of stealing!! I have given credit to everyone who had contributed to TNG.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE README TO SEE THE THANKS I GIVE THOUGH CAUSE THEY ARE TOO LAZY.

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Giskard:

Of all the people here I thought you would be grown up enough NOT to jump to conclusions. You don't even know what I tried to copyright and already are jumping around like a madman. You want to know what we tried to copyright, here it is.

The Nexus System
The new equipment that was added with TNG
Spawn's graphics

So sorry if that is so horrid. Sorry if I didn't want peopel to steal everything from us. I guess you don't mind if people rip and steal your stuff....or WAIT you just threatened ME cause you thought we stole your stuff, SO IT DOES MATTER TO YOU.

Also giskard, you said the following:

"You cannot copyright what is already copyrighted"

IF so how do people update copyrights for updated versions of their software?
I guess that means The 1.1 server patch can't be copyrighted because it is based on existed copyrighted material.

It's called COMPILATION COPYRIGHT, look it up. It allows you to copyright additions to copyrighted work.

Edited by - Reynen on 06-10-2003 07:01:45

Reynen said this a little earlier on

First I'm trying to be calm and polite about this, but if you want to INSIST on putting LIES up on the forum I will start to hold you accountable uder libel laws. You REALLY need to check your facts.

Now onto the FACTS:

Some peple agree with the conflicting versions. Then EVERY SINGLE mod that does that needs to be hit too, othewise it's discrimination. Oh did I mention that the new rebalance was going that route, as well as new universe, and other mods currently on the servers!!! Look at the 1.77 one!!

WE DID NOT EVER SELL ANY MERCHANDISE. That was NOT MY COMPANY that made the t-shirts, that was http://www.gamesthing.com/

WE DID NOT RUN THAT COMPANY. WE ALSO NEVER SAW ANY MONEY ON SALES THAT WERE MADE, THAT COMPANY ACTUALLY SHUT DOWN IT'S STORE.

I have also PAID for the bandwidth usage for peopel downloaing TNG. Oh wait....BANDWIDTH IS FREE THAT'S RIGHT, THE INTERNET IS COMPLETELY FREE. Even the bandwidth Lancer is using now is free....yep good thing.

Also you don't even know what we tried to copyright, YET YOU AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS AND POST IT UP AS A FACT. You want to know what we tried to copyright, here it is.

The Nexus System
The new equipment that was added with TNG
Spawn's graphics

Also giskard, you said the following:

"You cannot copyright what is already copyrighted"

IF so how do people update copyrights for updated versions of their software?
I guess that means The 1.1 server patch can't be copyrighted because it is based on existed copyrighted material.

It's called COMPILATION COPYRIGHT, look it up. It allows you to copyright additions to copyrighted work.

You apparently are ALSO saying if ANYONE puts in anti-cheat methods they are automatically in trouble. MS has their files ecrypted. Breaking that excryption IS A VIOLATION OF THE DMCA, SO HENSE ANY MODDER THAT DOES IT IS IN VIOLATIOIN. We added our own encryption, YET you are saying those same laws don't apply? Double standards.

Lastly there is ONE THING that NO ONE can dispute that is able to be copyrighted which is spawn's artwork that was done for us. Or are you telling me Microsfot owns art anyone creates now?

ALSO DID PEOPEL FORGET ABOUT REYNENMOD!!! That was one of the FIRST major mods out that had a number of stuff that TNG did. That was back in MARCH / APRIL - LONG BEFORE alot of these other mods came out. Michael dan even BASED rebalance mod OFF reynenmod and I gave him permission to use it.

That mod was also the FIRST to use stuff such as player contrlled gunboats, cruiser, and battleships. Implemented DOCKING RINGS and later on in TNG develooping DOCKING WITH CINEMATICS FOR LARGE SHIPS.

We also had beam weapons and lots of other new equipment not seen before which alot of peopl ended up copying into other mods.

Reynenmod was the base for many mods today and MANY people copied them!! We created the stuff in the first place!!! SO why are people accusing us of stealing!! I have given credit to everyone who had contributed to TNG.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ THE README TO SEE THE THANKS I GIVE THOUGH CAUSE THEY ARE TOO LAZY.

EVERYONE IS BLOWING THIS WAY OUT OF PREPORTIONS AND ACCUSING US OF STUFF WE NEVER DID!!! IF THIS CONTINUES I WILL CONSIDER GOING AFTER LIBEL. Every forum operater should know EVERYONE on here is responsible for what they say in libel cases, that has been proven already. Hence they watch what people say. Now quit spreading LIES about Starfyre studios and her staff!

Finally someone who is thinking straight, this came from a topic in the discussion forum, moderators, get rid of that topic and move the post here if you are worried about all the other topics

fogot to copy thier name, sorry abou that, but anyway here is what the guy said

It seems that Microsoft, not content with the money they already make, Have turned their attention to the mod community.
MS has sent a 'cease and desist' order to starfyre studios, declared that modding is 'clearly illegal' and has also stated that anyone that runs a server that uses mods is engaging in 'illegal activity'. This does not only affect FL:The Next Generation, but all mods and server operators of modded servers as well.

This is puzzling since as is evident Freelancer was released in an unfinished state and has limited gameplay. Micosoft should have addressed this issue and fixed the substandard game that WE the consumers have purchased. Their course of action clearly shows how little MS cares about those who purchase their product. By targeting modders who earn NOTHING from their efforts in enhancing the gaming experience MS shows their only concern is protecting their intelectual property rights from any threats; Real or imagined.

The only reason I still play FL is due the they passion and hard work on those who have enriched and extended the replay factor of this game. I am enraged by the action that MS and will NEVER again buy a product released by MS Gaming Studios and furthermore encourage everyone to join this boycott as well.

As consumers we must not sit by and let MS do this without consequence. I urge all FL players to write MS and let them know of your displeasure. Do not use any profanity but clearly state your dissatisfaction with this course of action. It would also be useful to use Vave and Half-Life as an example of Modding as a beneficial exercise. The threat of a boycott is also a powerfull weapon.

I have found that contacting anyone at MS is a difficult excercise at best but I have obtained one contact. He may not necessarily be the right person but in your e-mails ask him to pass your mail on to the right person. If anyone is able to get get a better contact then please post it here.

Microsoft Gaming Studios Contact:
Johner Riehl
Edelman (Edelman is the company that handles Public Relations for MS)
[email protected]

I will be posting this on every Freelancer related web site. I again urge everyone to do what you can.

hehe, I wonder which company they use to spy on modding communities

It'd be really funny if some hollywood producer made a movie out of this
involving companies called
StartFriar Studios, and MegaSawft

movies that would be similar are,
The Castle
Sueing God
dont know any others, lets make a list

2 tunes that would suit the mood here

Microsofts attitude to the entire FL community
TOM WAITS
God's Away On Buisness

Our attitude
TOM WAITS
In The Neighbourhood

salute TOM WAITS a great singer, these are my fav songs of his