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CYOF 7 Questions about the Rules

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Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:49 pm

CYOF 7 Questions about the Rules

I do not want the game thread to become overloaded by OT posts, so I create a new one for some of my questions about the rules. If you have any ow your own, don't be afraid to ask them too. After all, the rules are quite complex and one may get confused easily. So, in no particular order:

1.) Is blitzing still in game? I don't see it mentioned anywhere in the rules.

2.) Where and when can Jump Gates be created? The stated price is for one gate, or for a pair?

3.) Do I understand this correctly:

Border Dispute- A small war, usually in one or two systems, where you can choose whether or not to attack the other side if they enter one of your systems.

Open War- A large war in which any enemy ship enters a system that you control, then they are attacked.

Total War- A massive war in which any enemy ship to enter a system you have a base in is attacked.

If I am in an Open/Total war with someone, and he enters my system, all of my units there will automatically attack him?

4.) Is the Battleship Hood a base or a Battleship unit? By the rules it's an unit, but it has been unusable for quite a long time, and now it serves only as a stationary base:

The Hood was an abandoned hulk until it was re-pressurized by a few enterprising members of the Independent Mining Guild looking to make a fast buck. The Hood is now a floating bazaar where the Mollys come to trade, usually paying in Gold. The most popular pastime aboard the ship involves racing through the neighboring asteroid field; most races generally end with a survivor as opposed to a winner.


5.) When I build a base, do I get the resources it collects in that turn, or only one turn after it's completed? E.g.:
In turn #5, I order construction of a base.
In turn #6, I place it somewhere.
Do I get the credits/resources from it for the first time in turn #6 or #7? Turn #7 makes more sense, but many players (including me) have in the past counted with the resources right in turn #6. Which is correct?

6.) In the Battle rules:

Battles: Are resolved using a system based on ships stats, quantity, and strategy given to the judge.

What kind of strategy can I give to the judge? Like attack capships first, or retreat when 50% of the units die, or chose specific targets for every unit...? How much control do I have over my units besides for the 'attack everyone' command?

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:02 pm

Yes Blitzing is still in the game, its by the battle rules.

Jumpgates can be created anywhere. The price is for 1 Jumpgate, not a pair.

For the warfare rules, its just a generalzation. If your opponent entered you system during total war, he would have to attack to pass through.

The Hood is a large base. Its too outdated and is overrun with Mollies.

For the bases, you get the resources when the base is placed.

Now for battle:

The strategy thing is you tell what your ships are gonna do.

Like this:

Lets say the Xenos attack Liberty.

Liberty has 1 battleship, 2 Gunboats, and 20 VHF wings.

Xenos has 20 LF wings, 20 HF wings, 20 VHF wings, and 20 Bomber wings

The Xenos would put something like this:

My 20 LF wings will split into 2 groups of 10 LF wings. Each group will go to 1 gunboat. The the formation will slit apart so each individual ship in the wing is scattered while making strafing runs at the Gunboats, drawing their fire.

The Bombers split into 2 groups of 10 Wings with the VHF's flying cover for them.
1 group each will go to the gunboats and make bombing runs.

Once the gunboats are destroyed all fighters will engage the Battleship. The VHFs will go after the Libert VHFs.


So the strategy will look something like that, but it is up to you what you do. even your out numbered you could still win if your strategy is better that your opponents

Edited by - gunblader on 11/8/2005 2:09:52 PM

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:12 pm


What kind of strategy can I give to the judge? Like attack capships first, or retreat when 50% of the units die, or chose specific targets for every unit...? How much control do I have over my units besides for the 'attack everyone' command?


Well, GB seems to be going back to the CYOF 4 style rules. Here are some asamples of strategies from that game:


This is the strategy that will be used against Wildes southern fleet.

I'll send all my SHF to surrond his fleet in EMP mines, making it immpossible for HIM to move without setting them off. I'll move my fleet 21K away, send one CL3 to ram one of his capital ships to make it move, setting off the mines, disabling his ships. If I can I want to be able to salvage that fleet, or parts of it.


That is one from our esteemed admin Gunblader. It's pretty standard as far as length and detail.

And here is one of Codename's which is incredibly long and specific:


Yeah, so I'm attacking Wilde. You have some battles to resolve. Enjoy.

There will be 5 battles between my forces and those of the Miners Guild; one each in Bonn, Dresden, Munich, Delta-3 and Venice for full control of those systems. I see all of my forces engaging all Miners Guild forces.

Bonn:
Rheinland forces: 3 CL2, 7 CL1, 13 LS, 24 SS, 66 SHF, 98 VHF, 40 LF
Miners Guild forces: 2 LS, 64 SHF, 30 HF, 30 LF

I will split my forces in this system into three task forces: Alpha, Beta and Gamma. Task Forces Alpha and Beta will each be comprised of 1 CL2, 3 CL1, 5 LS, 12 SS, 32 SHF and 45 VHF. Task Force Gamma will contain the remainder of the forces; 1 CL2, 1 CL1, 3 LS, 2 SHF, 8 VHF and 40 LF. Task Force Alpha will engage the MG forces at Elbich, Task Force Beta will engage the MG forces at Briesen and Gamma will hold back, ready to reinforce, should either squad require aid (unlikely). Task force Gamma holds the Admiral responsible for this assault.

The attack itself will progress something like this:
My forces have patrol paths that lead past all MG facilities in the Bonn system. These patrol paths do bring ships within firing range of said facilities, if the ships are Gungir CL2s. Both task forces will coordinate so that they arrive within firing range simultaneously. Once they are there, the Bifrost LSs will set up an overlapping square-shaped shield wall (one at each corner, and one in the centre) and the task force will take up position inside. The CL2s will open fire, concentrating on the MG LS. Those ships will not last long, maybe one or two volleys. When the remainder of the MG forces break and retaliate, my ships will all slowly move forward to engage (they will remain within the shield wall). Once the distances have closed somewhat the Garm SS will burst forth in 3 shield quads. These formations offer extremely high levels of shielding, only concentrated fire from a significant number of SHFs will stand a chance of destroying any of them. These gunboats will burn through the thickest enemy formations, only firing “shock” weaponry – I do not wish any more casualties than necessary. Once the Garms have finished their run they will make a large loop to rejoin the main task force from behind. Each shield quad will loop in a different direction in an attempt to draw fire away from the central formation. By this time the remainder of the task force will be ready to engage. The fighters will exit the main shield wall and engage all enemy fighters, again using only shock weaponry to minimize deaths. The SHFs will utilize the same shield quad tactics as the Garms while the Fenris VHFs will form nine shield “quints”. (No single fighter will be able to penetrate the four or five layers of shielding alone, if the MG forces do not utilize similar tactics they will quickly fall. Even if they do attempt a similar strategy, it will not be as effective due to their limited technology.) The Balmung Battleships will take up positions just outside the shield wall and protect the Bifrosts and Gungir.

Dresden:
Rheinland: 1 CL1, 4 LS, 100 SHF, 48 VHF, 30 HF,
MG: 3 LS, 64 SHF, 30 HF, 30 LF

Only two task forces this time, Alpha and Beta. Alpha will be made up of 2 LS, 60 SHF, 28 VHF and 15 HF; it will assault Leipzig. Beta will contain 1 CL1, 2 LS, 40 SHF, 20 VHF and 15 HF and will attack Bautzen.

In this case the assault will be considerably more straightforward. In both cases the 2 Bifrosts will set up a command base well away from the bases themselves. They will be guarded by the HFs. The remaining fighters will simply attack the MG fighters, using the shield groupings and tactics described in the Bonn battle plan (shock weapons unless absolutely necessary). Their first targets will be the fighters. Once they are taken down then the Support ships will come under fire, if there are any left. In the case of Task Force Beta, the Balmung will be instructed to engage the MG LS craft.

Munich:
Rheinland: 2 CL3, 1 CL2, 7 CL1, 14 LS, 8 SS, 92 SHF, 68 VHF, 40 HF, 40 LF
MG: 16 SHF, 20 VHF, 30 LF

Overwhelming force. There is only one concentration of MG ships in this system. I will steamroll right over them. As always, the shield groups and shock weapons and their associated tactics apply.

Delta-3:
Rheinland: 2 CL3, 1 CL2, 2 CL1, 12 LS, 48 SS, 56 SHF, 112 VHF, 60 HF
MG: 1 CL4, 60 SHF, 30 VHF, 30 HF

Again, only one MG force, so no task force distinctions. The Bifrosts will set up a double-redundant shield sphere (two each on the top, bottom, left, right, front and back) with a large space inside to hold the fleet. Once my forces are in range the Gungir platform will open fire on the MG CL4, certainly damaging it and hopefully disabling the craft. When the MG force moves to strike back, my forces will execute similar attacks against the MG forces. In this case however the Garm gunships and Fenris VHFs will fly as paired shield quads in order to increase their power and defence further. The capital ships will focus their fire on the CL4 until it is disabled or destroyed, at which point they will begin anti-fighter operations. As always only use shock-based weaponry unless the battle does not progress well.

Venice:
Rheinland: 5 CL4, 1 CL3, 2 CL2, 12 LS, 8 SS, 80 SHF, 20 VHF, 50 LF
MG: 1 CL4, 2 CL2, 1 LS, 47 SHF, 60 LF

There are two groups of MG forces here so I will divide the fleet. Task Force Alpha will have all ships except the 50 LF, Task Force Beta will be only the 50 LF.

Task force Alpha will engage the primary MG forces, located at Gas Miner Naha and Ionia Shipyard. The Bifrosts will set up another double-redundant shield sphere and carry the ships to battle in that same way. Once the MG force is within range of the Gungirs’ guns they will open fire, concentrating first on the CL4. It is not likely to last long, surely not long enough to return fire. Then my ships will wait. Since this battle is for the MG home system I can be sure they will fight for it tooth and nail. My Yggdrasil Flagships will engage all MG forces with all fighters (in shield quad configuration) offering fire support as necessary.

Task Force Bravo’s attack plan is simpler. The 50 Banshees will split into 10 shield quints and engage the 8 SHFs protecting Suez. While one Banshee is certainly not enough to challenge a Firelord, five of them working in close concert (as only QRC-enhanced craft can) are more than a match for any individual fighter craft.

All craft are ordered to only use shock weapons if possible.


That's above and beyond tha call of duty, but it sure gives you a better control of your units, as well as an advantage over the enemy because your plan is more detailed and probably better.

Get the picture?

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:13 pm


Jumpgates can be created anywhere


Can a Corporation create a Jump Gate for example from New York to Omicron Alpha, provided it has some units in both systems? That would be VERY imbalanced, because the Gates cannot be destroyed. 1000$/20G/60M isn't so much after all, if the Corp has support from a House (probably Liberty in the example)


And I don't see any mention of blitzing in the rules. Maybe I'm just blind, but I've read through them several times and got nothing.

Edit: thanks for other explanations. Edited turn slightly...

Edited by - Lord Emperor on 11/8/2005 2:31:38 PM

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:02 pm

hmm, ok new ruling.

Jumpgates can only be built up to 3 systems away.

So New York-Manchester would be fine.

And jumpgates can be destroyed, but only by bombers and Battleships



another action that is considered to be a battle is diplomatic blitzing. A diplomatic blitz is an action where you try to convince an NPC base to join your faction. This action can only be done to NPC factions, and only to bases in systems where you have units and/or bases. It may also only be done three times time per turn. There are a few modifiers.

The first modifier is about the type of base that is being blitzed:

Small Station- +0 modifier
Large Station- +1 modifier
Capital Ship Shipyard- +2 modifier
Planet- +3 modifier

Gas/Metal miners may NOT be blitzed.

The other modifier is regarding your faction class, and the base’s faction class. Regard the political spectrum below to figure out modifiers:

Houses/Police – Corporations – Miners/Spacers – Major Pirates – Minor Pirates

To figure out the modifier for faction type, you need to find your faction class, and find the faction’s class that you are blitzing, and then find the number of spaces between them. All blitz rolls start at 10.

Example: Kusari Corperations, a corporation, is attempting to blitz a Kusari Pirates base. They have a base in the system, and the KP base is a large one. So, you add one point for the large station, making the roll an 11. Then, since the KP is a Minor Pirate faction, you add 3 points, because Minor Pirates are 3 spaces from Corporations. That makes 14. So, in order for KC to get the KP base, a 14 or higher must be chosen.


directly from the rules

Edited by - gunblader on 11/8/2005 3:20:23 PM

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:07 pm

Not in the rules of CYOF 7 I mean.

Jump Gates - still slightly imbalanced, if a player can use them wisely. I'll keep the details for myself, as it's not easy to find out the imbalance and for general purpose it can be kept as it is. I can't abuse it, as I am playing a Miner faction, thus no Gates.

In case you are wondering, I was thinking about balanced, and still useable Gates since CYOF 5, so I developed quite a lot of tactics (how to use something that actualy didn't exist back then )


Are the Jump Gates present originaly in FL destroyable too?

Edited by - Lord Emperor on 11/8/2005 3:18:58 PM

Post Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:26 pm

In FL no, but is theorectically possible since a Wing of Defenders destroyed a base in FL

Post Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:46 pm

More unclear things/typos/mistakes in the rules:



The Miner text still says only one jump per turn.

List of ships that each faction can build says: "Here is a list of what ships factions can research and later build:". There is nothing more about researching ship classes in the rules.

Research cost is listed as 25$ in the complete price list, and 100$ in the part talking specifically about research. Then in the same part it is listed as 25$ again.

Jump Gates description doesn't say wether it is for one gate or for a pair, nor where can you build them.

The battle timing system is still not fair for players living in different time zones.

The battle system is described way too poorly. (commanding your forces, how useful are stats versus ship count, which are differences between different ships, etc. etc.) I think battles take significant part in this game, and having a battle decided by what normal players (e.g. not admins/judges) see as pure luck doesn't any good.
I remember in the last CYOF when ~10 light fighters took down a battleship without any loses, then much larger group was completely devastated by a BS and a few fighters (or was it only one BS too?)

Destroying stations isn't described at all - I assume I just order the units to destroy the base after I've defeated enemy forces at it, but it is not clear at all.

Not exactly a mistake, but there is very large danger in sending exploration parties (3/10 chance of Nomad attack) and very few benefits (all new systems get only 2/2 resources). The probabilities should be either altered or resources in new systems increased, or even better, randomized.

Not a word in the rules about who can control which system, yet it is being referenced to (Open War- A large war in which any enemy ship enters a system that you control , then they are attacked.)

Again, not a bug, but RH corporations start with too many bases in very profitable systems. I suggest splitting them in RH corporations and RH miners (Kruger, Daumann).

Chugoku and Tohoku are still not listed in the resource list.

Many more smaller and larger (and two huge) imbalances.

Edited by - Lord Emperor on 11/10/2005 3:00:59 PM

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