Thanks for your reply's folks they were very informative.

I agree with Freud about the staticness of the Freelancer universe. Even in the demo, it doesn't take long to realise that nothing really changes. The same people will be in the same bars, the same factions will own the same bases and parts of space, and water will always cost more on Pittsburgh.

Even in Frontier, you could go into deepest space, not really knowing where the hell you're going or what you'd find. Memorable scenarios like, for example, the long trip to Alpha Centauri, and the tales of being able to do your shopping, have a bath, watch the news, come back and your ship would just about have made it there. Granted, that wasn't a common occurence, but it was one of those little things that added to the game. If you wanted to take a mission to AC, you had to factor in whether your ship was fast enough, whether you had enough fuel for the journey, and when your dinner would be ready. I wonder if, in a few years from now, Freelancer players will be able to recall memorable events that happened in the game, away from the main story?

After completing the single player game, most people will turn to multiplayer. It's what the game's future will hinge on, possibly along with mods as well (if MS/DA see the light and bring out an SDK).

Freelancer feels like a good game that's standing behind the line that seperates good from great, but it can't step over that line. The only people who can help it to do that are those who have the ability to change it.

Bad Points:

Game abit to easy, in SP even much to easy
To easy to make fast money cause of the static eco
Flat universe, that do give your charakter real motivations

Others might disagree, but that are my main problems,
the universe simply is far away from a perfekt illusion, it does not feel at all living to me. The faction system is nice, but the changes in it appear in sp to fast and randomly, and in multi it takes you ages of sensless killing of the enemy of a faction to get a good faction state with them, subplot missions that after time to change the status without much killing would be better, and more realistic imo. (I know subplot missions is a feature but its just an example HOW the flaw could be changed, I am open for any other way, just senseless killing is taking away the illussion of a living and breathing universe)

The game mechanics are not good hidden.

Its still a good game though.

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Space is very 2D in the game. Every planet/station/point of interest is in the same height, which really breaks the illusion for me.

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[sarcasmAnd in our own systems the planets are on different hight.[/sarcasm
Not that the outposts/battleships are on different levels. Note that most of the players don't care.
What about "Same Factions always own the bases"? There are no wars between the faction so what do you expect? The people in the bar always change. The missions are identical if you're ignoring them. For example I had one mission where I had to kill a rogue, tractor his escape pod and bring it on Manhattan! I haven't seen that before!
Same people in the bar? Well, in Diablo 2 there were NO bars and the people in the city were always the same. Somehow that didn't bother the players.
In Morrowind most of the quests revolved arround killing or being a courrier.
I have the constant feeling that people are trying hard to find the errors in the game and that they do not listen to counterarguments.
Whatever. I am happy to report the Trolling in the forums is fading.

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Bazil, M. P.
Webmaster and founder of Roughnecks -Freelancer Division
"If you would care to follow me... " -- DEATH of the Discworld

Yup... If you go rough on the trolls, they grumbling find other places to annoy

Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor

Nice to see a sensible thread on this.

Based on very limited play so far I don't like:

- Planet side textures/design
- Too arcady feel to battles. P2 had the lots of weak fire effect and it worked, but the combination of that, mouse control, arrows pointing at enemies rather than radar, and use of nano-bots/batteries has reduced my feeling that I'm piloting a ship. It feels more like aquanox. This is likely to change when I get more play time.
- Acceleration/decceleration control. In mouse flight I kept going into first person shooter mode, but it doesn't work when you control accel/deccel rather than just forward/backward. It seems like a hang-over from the old days of other control mechanisms.

Edited by - kalniel on 27-02-2003 16:32:46

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What about "Same Factions always own the bases"? There are no wars between the faction so what do you expect?

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Ever been in the Omega systems? The corsairs and hessians are constantly fighting, attacking each others bases (guess no one told them bases are indestructible). Now I could join up with the corsairs and kill 1000 hessians. That should really swing the scale in this part of space right? Nope. What if I join the Hessians and kill loads of corsairs. Surely that must give the Hessians a bit of edge? Nope, think again. Nothing I ever do will ever change anything. The corsairs and hessians will spawn ships at the exact same pace, fly the same routes, and have their little pointless battles at the same spots. Now imagine if what I did actually mattered. I could join the Corsairs and help them take out a Hessian installation. That would mean the Hessians would be weakened in this part of space and couldn't patrol at much. Perhaps we could even build a Corsair installation in that spot. This would push the Hessians back to the other systems. What if we were able to do the same in those systems? The Hessians could be reduced to a rag tag band with few bases while the Corsairs would be a force to be reckoned with. That is how a dynamic universe would work. I know which one I would prefer to play in.

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The missions are identical if you're ignoring them. For example I had one mission where I had to kill a rogue, tractor his escape pod and bring it on Manhattan! I haven't seen that before!

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A wild stab in the dark here. Did that mission have you fly to first one waypoint in the same system->fight some baddies->fly to another waypoint and there kill the guy? Are you saying that the mere act of pressing b after you killed him made this mission original to you? I know I press b after each kill anyway.

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Same people in the bar? Well, in Diablo 2 there were NO bars and the people in the city were always the same. Somehow that didn't bother the players.

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Diablo2 was hardly immersive or known for its variety. Quite the opposite, it was very repetitive. Nor was Diablo2 known for its great quest system. Most thought the quests in D2 were horrible.

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Same people in the bar? Well, in Diablo 2 there were NO bars and the people in the city were always the same. Somehow that didn't bother the players.

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Funny you should mention Morrowind. In Morrowind you also have a huge world and loads of fractions. But you also had loads of specific missions for each fraction, you can climb in position in the different fractions. You can even become the leader of the fractions. You never got the feeling the fraction quests in MW were all the same, that is of course due to the fact that they actually were not all the same.

Now I realize it would take loads of work to make a dynamic universe (or to better create the illusion of one). My guess is that MS after 4 years in development decided to get this out there, ready or not. I get the feeling the developers wanted to put loads of nice things in there but there was simply no time left. That is what is most annoying. This game has 85% of the ground work to building a totally amazing game. But it just ends up being a good game that last you 20 hours before you realize that this is all there is to it. It is one of those could-have-been-should-have-been-so-much-better-games. Which is a bit depressing. I am not telling anyone to stay clear of it. It is a fun little space game. Just not the epic it had the potential to be.

Edited by - Freud on 27-02-2003 16:47:57

I'll lock this thread now, since we are again moving into what Freelancer is not, instead of looking at what is actually in Freelancer.

I know that some might be annoyed by it, and if you feel like discussing it, mail me!



Best Regards
Christian "Bargib" Koerner
Editor in Chief, The Lancers Reactor