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How the current Freelancer can turn into the best space sim

This is a free discussion forum on Freelancer. This is the place to discuss Freelancer issues NOT covered by the other boards!

Post Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:54 pm

How the current Freelancer can turn into the best space sim

First of all. I've played all types of Space sims rpgs .. From Elite to Freelancer

This is my favorite genre periot. I played Elite 1 Frontier Elite, Frontier Elite 2 First Encounters, Wing Commander Privater I and II, I-WAR, all Wing Commanders other than space rpgs, Freespace I and II, X - Tension, Allegiance
I've beta tested Earth and Beyound , and Eve Online.

One thing I keep asking myself is this. How come a Popular game like Freelancer doesnt get good support from the developer?

First of all I would like to propose to the community to create a petition to Microsoft ,to at least provide the info or tools so that the community can have a less harder time developing things for the game. Some things are hardcoded and we really would apreciate if Microsoft helped a little . The number of sales of a game also depend on the support of its community. If it wasnt for the community Half-Life wouldnt have Counter Strike thus not sell so much.
And if Microsoft wants to protect its rights well there are agreements for something.

Now a sugestion to the community . There are preety good community developers around. Now most are doing their own projects, with their unique points. Some already can use capital ships, others have more customizable ships, others build on factions, some want to extend the game with new ships from other universes , some want to extend the original universe.

Now even thought I realize that the members of the community try to help each other, I have noticed , that there really isnt some kind of "basic mod sharing" ... I mean ...
Lets say X mod lets players use battleships. Why not share mini mods, with the basic popular features, say a better market system, and so on . So that players could download a sort of core module. As well developers could interchange features, and provide know - how to each other.

Now for the features that can be added to freelancer:

New ships of all types (capital ships, etc etc) maintaining the original freelancer look.
Beam cannons...a la Freespace I read the tutorial...What if the beam cannon drains energy very very quickly . Also it could be made a say level 12 weapon. And capital ships would be able to mount only say one or two level 12 weapons)
Beam cannons are really neat stuff. Thats why they are used in so many popular sci-fi series and movies, that use capital ships.
Mining could be more "natural" ...One could buy a mining tool or even a mining ship to really be able to mine.
New mission types. Specially for higher level players, and missions that REALLY require other players to finish. Could be escort missions, could be, total war campaing like missions. Take Ideas from Freespace, Elite Frontier had some really original ones. Like taking certain person to certain place.

-- Please post other ideas that can already be added to freelancer --

The cooler features are unfortunatly those that are indeed yet not able to add to freelancer or that we need Microsoft support to make them...Some may too much for this game. But perhaps in the future

- DYNAMIC MARKET FOR GOD SAKE. Look at Eve type of market system. Ok thats very hard...Well at least make it so that what i sell in a station is available to others.
- Post news Ingame, and mission in game. Sort of bulletin board . Also Eve had some good ideas around this. Like placing, bountys, notify events, and so on.
- Several type of newspapers. Could be player created to reflect a clan or something like that.
- Corporations and station owning. A la Eve and X - Tension. A player could Buy NPC Ships to protect it when no corp members are online.
- Better in game chat and squad support. (for example joining a squad, wouldnt need to be in the same system)
- God a simple basic feature .. LET ONE HAVE A CLAN TAG.
- Station can create new products, like weapons and stuff.
- MORE AND MORE types of enviroments, like black holes(There was a screenshot with one...What happened to it?), systems with huge wormholes a la Star Trek - Deep Space 9 ... More and more enviroments. Planets with animated textures like what appears when we start the game. And so on.

David Braben (Elite) made on its own Frontier Elite 2. It had a dynamic economy, Planet orbiting. IT emulated several galaxys( Yes galaxys) . You could ENTER planets really enter. And watch day/night cycles. The universe was all connected . No Jump holes . All same huuuggee universe . It had ingame newspapers that you could subescribe to. It had factions too, that could give u metals and stuff. All types of missions.. Like take Metal scrap from certain station to certain station. Freespace II had THE best space fights. Really great. With capital ships fighting for life . With captain chat like "we cant hold her" and so on. All types of ships with its own good points.. A good Figher ship couldnt be a good bomber. It couldnt have Torpedo Missiles for example. It created a great dynamic in multiplayer campaign battles (YES MULTIPLAYER CAMPAIGN TYPE BATTLES) ..It gave medals, for special missions, and it kept all your stats online, and you had titles. You could see who really was the best in Freespace 2. It had a mission editor. (freespace 2 is free for download right now and is one of the BEST if not the BEST campaing like Space sim)...X - Tension brought station creation, and develop, Eve brought the best player driven universe, with player driven economys (with npc to balance things if needed), and complete player corporations with really HUGE wars alliances and so one between them . Great avatar creation, players can create all types of things throught blueprints that can have "excelent" market value . And Freelancer brought a really Wonderfull universe with all types of "terrains" that smoothly change between. Never before could we be in a nebula and next moment be in a complete different envoirment. Never before we had such a lively online universe with real-time space flight (not turn based), that one can interact in.

For me the Developer who follows a path similiar to what Freelancer followed (the dynamic universe enviroment), and puts the dynamic player driven economy with the station owning and player corporations, as well as a universe that responds to it with huge territorial campaing like missions. A game that provides modders and server admins the tools to create dynamic enviroments that can be unpredicable. Like to be able to trigger dynamic events, like the explosion of a star (Freespace 2 had this in one mission), or NPC Corporations that due to different things decide to conquer a certain system, This Developer will have a HUGE success at its hands. Its not the space sim genre that has problems ... It is the developers that arent giving us what we need.
(by the way Eve is a best seller... Freelancer even thought Microsoft shifted its attentions to other games(and consoles), sold well) .

So, knowing that the last Elite got out in about 1995, X-Tension in 1999, Wing Commander dont remember, Freespace 2 in 1999, and so on, why oh why we still dont have that all time space sim of our dreams ?

Please post your ideas. Likes and dislikes. And what do You want the space sim developers to give us.



Edited by - Comet on 28-07-2003 22:59:21

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:48 am

incredible post!!!
to add to your random mission wish list: trade, patrol, and capital ship destroying
there should definatly be more ships, weapons and shields
there should also be a srcipt that would have bases destroyed that belonged to certian factions and then new ones rebuilt by them. kind of a mini campaign for each faction
it would be nice if there were more commities
the buy/sell screen could use some ajustments. every once and awhile i will go to a hostile factions base and just kill their ships for the kill counts and the goods from their ships. there was this one time that i had 86 guns/misslepods/minelayers that weren't equiped on my ship that i had to sell. it tool me more than 5 minutes to sell all that i had collected from my excursion. didn't like that
it would also be nice if there was a way to have the game automatically go to each waypoint that you have on your map rather then do all the clicking yourself
automatic turrets, countermeasures and minelayers

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:56 am

a petition sounds good; Microsoft flung this one out and disappeared.

And God said,
E=mC²
And there was light.

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:23 am

i now see how annoying the FL2 treads are now
yep i said this like last week kidds and then some one like 3 days ago and what not and ect. and so on

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:27 am

Yeah this has been raised many times before, so don't get your hopes up that anything will change... It's like that for any good game you just wish could be a little bit better.

Live Long and Prosper.

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:20 am

Great post, Comet, well thought out. But I warn you about asking others to post wishlists of what they want in a game. Several threads appeared in this forum with dozens and dozens of lists, but no one ever read what other people had written and kept repeating everything. I even made an all encompassing list of most repeated things and STILL very few people read it.

As for Dynamic economy. When I first started posting on Lancers Reactor I would have totally agreed for having a dynamic economy as described by many, if you bring a number of goods to a station or planet then the price would go down.

To a point I still agree, but now on another level. Bases and planets should have population sizes. Afterall prices are driven by market forces, market forces are the balance of supply and demand. If a base with 200 people has a large influx of a commodity the price will change drastically. A planet with 200 million people and an influx of a commodity that only fills up one cargo ship, that wouldn't make much of a difference at all. Perhaps over a great number of runs, maybe the price would change.

I'd like to know how Privateer had its trading system. It felt more realistic in that sometimes you got great deals for buying commodities on a certain base or planet, and sometimes if you needed a commodity for a particular run you might be overcharged. In retrospect, it's kind of like petrol (gasoline) prices today. With daily crude oil fluctuating with wars and supply problems the price one day can change drastically up or down the next. I think Privateer's market system was just a % variable given to each base and product regardless of what the other bases were trading. This so far is my favorite trading system. Although, I like the news events in Privateer 2 affecting prices as well.

Just my thoughts; do not infringe upon my thoughts, for I thought them first.

Spectre

Edited by - Spectre-Man on 29-07-2003 07:32:26

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:49 am

Just look up the Decal project for Asheron's Call. The only reason most people played that game for a long time was because of the developers behing the Decal plugins.

Hell, the dev's for Asheron's Call 2 made parts of the API open for that specific reason - there were some INCREDIBLE things that were done to bastardize the Asheron's Call code that most people never saw... but that's because the game engine was decoupled in such a way that monthly updates could be made.

FreeLancer wasn't designed like Half-Life, Asheron's Call, StarCraft (scripting engine), or Rise of Nations. But the depth of the game has kept me satisfied so far, and has been worth every cent.

The ideas suggested are great... it's too bad that stuff hasn't come along yet all in one game. It's been quite a while since something like FreeLancer has come along - I'm just glad it has, and it's a step in the right direction.

Post Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:33 pm

the ability to buy a space station (say more than a capital ship) and take the profit from sold goods (especially usefull online for clans)

beware of the leopard
bill gates is watching you

Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:49 am

The puzzling thing is why a game with this much animation and high level graphics is restricted to only one CD. Think of how much more it could be on just 2 CDs.






Juni: "Trent, we've got to go faster!"

Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:46 am

Personally I want games with more story that fills up DVD-Roms. I don't have a single game on DVD-Rom yet, not counting PS2 games.

Spectre

Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:56 am

well there really isn't as much graphics as you think most of it is repeat there are not that meany planets 10 maybe just placed in a lot most of the graphic animation is done in the story the rest is really "hot rendered" (just made that up) eerr the game makes the animation as its going is what im trying to say

Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34 pm

My money will always be on the independants.

I'm betting on the Malfador Machinations submission, Starfury, to be top notch. The graphics won't exactly be cutting edge, but that's probably the least important thing in a space sim to me. And if it isn't top notch initially, the company has proven they will make it so, given enough community support and suggestions, and time to release a few patches.

If any of you haven't played their Space strategy game Space Empires IV, and you like space strategy games (R4) then you should try that one out. It's hands down the best space strat game ever made, due mainly to Malfador being a company formed from independant gamers who are sick of big-company beauracracy ruining gameplay.

Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:12 pm

Just remember people, this is MICROSOFT we're talking about. Do you really believe they care more about modders, or anything for that matter, or their profits? Sure this stuff would be great, but they might just decide to be offended by anyone who dares to disturb the HOLY COMPUTER CODE of Microsoft. Do you want to be the one to nudge the big, smelly dragon?

Oooo, pretty....what do we blow up first?

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