@Snedex: Nope. You're thinking of a wormhole.

if you want to look at something that represents a black hole go to omicron alpha (the system containing Malta) and make sure ure friendly with the outcasts! look around a bit and you'll see it towards the hispania wreck. its not much but its an ok representation!
(can't put pic on coz im a stupid newbie! )

Well, when we are talking about Freelancer then forget about the saying that its not realistic to put black hole in the game, well the whole game is unrealistic, if at the real distant the way the planets and stars are packed to close to each other in then game then everything will be instantly rush up together by their own gravities and why the planets are so small. But that’s ok I love Freelancer not because the game is suppose to be a realistic representation of universe but the game's action pack of fun, so it really doesn't matter.

I want to talk about the real blackhole, its true until now we have not discovered a blackhole for sure in the universes, blackhole is almost invisible since everything gets close to it will be suck in (including light), but we can be sure there are blackholes because of the math calculation and since blackholes generates enormous amount of gravity so it effect near by star system, and from this we can be sure there is blackholes out there because we have found about six or seven star's behaviors that can only be describe by having a nearby blackhole effecting it.

The birth of a blackhole is from a really massive sun, about thousands times larger then our sun. When our sun dies out because it has burned all of its Hydrogen and convert it all into Helium (or the other way around, I forget), so it can no longer support its own gravity and eventually it clasps into a really dense and small dwarf (I’m skipping all the steps such as Red Giant to nova) and then it will stop, by now all the electrons and neutrons in the dwarf will be no longer follow the law of earth physics and it will be all pack together because of the gravity.

For a much larger sun it doesn't stop there, the gravity it generates are so great so it keeps going until everything clasps but there is no limits to it, so it just keep clasping forever and if any nearby mass or energy came close to it, they will all be suck in by the gravity. And this is what we call a blackhole.
(If I’m wrong please correct me)

But I’m thinking what happens to the matters that got sucked in to the black hole?

someone else said that matter cannot be destroyed or created according to a law in chemistry. As for matter going into a black hole there are two things that could happen, we do not know. First the matter could be compressed infinitely small and infinitely dense, (but scientists don't like infinites) or that black holes are information destroyers and everything that goes in is destroyed. That goes against chemistry but that is what i was taught. but we don't know!!
(can't believe i remebered that! pls feel free to correct me)

Well you know I hate to sound like a Free Thinker, But:

Although at the moment it is thus far PROVEN that Matter can be neither created now destroyed, all these factors were simulated, tested, thought up, and calculated in an environment of our own.

When you add in the theory of a Black Hole, you change everything.

This isn't 5 hammers hitting bottlecap at 5 different angles all at the same time, this is the Gravitational force of a Star times some really sick amount.

IN space with something this powerful, all the Laws of Nature stop applying.

Ok, maybe not all, but a large ammoutn can certainly "disappear"

So just remember that, Im sure a black hole with enough force could MAKe the matter disappear in some sense's.

heya ppl's im a bit of a newbie here BUT,
i ghave done the physics cource in school and that says that when matter is drawn into a black hole it adds to the colapsed stars mass therefore the matter is not destroyed or changed it is just added to the mass of the black hole it is realy small amount compared to the mass of the origanal black hole so it has no noticable change to the veiw of the hole. im not burning anyone just trying to clear up some strange ideas but good theries about what happens

War does not determine who is right, Olny who won!!

Physics, eh? What about English? Did you learn how to use some commas?

Black hole theory: (again!)

If you look upon space as a massive plane, you are partially correct in your views. However, space is not as flat as you think it is. Gravity dislocation from stars and other astral bodies creates plateaus, hills, and pits in the fabric of space. It has already been proven that this has effects on light; light "bends" and "warps" when it gets close to some spatial body.

A star burns by converting hydrogen gas into helium-3 using the process of fusion, creating energy by merging the nuclei of atoms. However abundant, though, hydrogen is not limitless, and the star will eventually run out. To compensate for the loss of hydrogen, the star will expand, and thin out to regulate the lost energy. This has the added side effect of creating more gravity. (more mass=more gravity) When the star completely runs out of hydrogen, it can do one of several things, all of which result from the final collapse of the star due to it's own gravity.

1. If it's "lucky," it may still have enough hydrogen around to collapse into a smaller star and start the process again.

2. If there's another star around, it may be absorbed into the higher-energy star; at which point, the new star could:
A: become a new, self-sustaining giant star
or
B: redistribute the energy back into a twin star system, until it becomes a really impressive-looking double nova.

3. It will completely collapse, resulting in a catastrophic amount of gravity dislocation.

On a map of space time, astral bodies such as stars will appear as small "pits" or "hills" in the plane, due to their gravity dislocation. Once a star collapses, it has a small chance that the collapse, due to the star's previous mass, will not stop its implosion, resulting in a rather large dent in the fabric of space. (Notice how I don't use the phrase "space-time." I'll get to that later.) This is your average black hole, or more correctly labeled, a "black dent." This utter mass has such gravitational force that it literally drags in space around it. (Remember the dent?) Not only space, but most objects around it, including light. (Hence the "black" in a black hole)

The gravity dislocation from a collapsing star could also become several other things which I am too tired to list right now. Maybe later, in another essay.

But wait! How come PMM never uses that old term "space-time?" Recall the image of the plane with bumps and pits, used to model space. However, since that only depicts universal force, it cannot measure time. Time is something we have created to depict the linearality of eventuality. Time is only how we model the passing of things, and in terms of universality, time is completely immeasurable. The fabric of space is littered with all kinds of imperfections caused by the four universal forces. (Strong and weak nuclear force, elecromagnetic force, and gravitational force) Since none of these four can affect time, an abstract notion conjured up by man, time can no longer fit into the equation.

Also, light has mass, though very minute. This is due to one thing that most physists have observed: remember how I told you that light bends around the dents and bumps caused by gravity dislocation? According to gravity/graviton theory, all things with mass, due to the presence of graviton particles, (Subatomic particles that have been theorized to create gravity on things with mass, ie: atoms.) are attracted to each other, and are all duly affected by the force of gravity. In the same way, most scientists and I have observed that light does not always travel in wavemotion, such as energy, but as something with mass. Recently, several scientists succeeded in slowing down light to about 25.4 mph, reinforcing this theory.

Does that answer your questions?

Black holes are "visible" despite their intense gravity, which is too strong for most light to escape. Here's why:

1. Black holes still emit X-Rays, which can be used to find their position.

2. If it is nearby another star(as is the case in several former star pairs; one collapses and sucks gasses from the other), the gasses from that other star will swirl around the black hole in a decaying orbit, still visible until they reach the "event horizon".

The black hole visible from Omicron Alpha(in the background) is most likely a stellar mass black hole paired with a blue giant star, as it desplays the swirling gasses mentioned above.

It is theorized that spiral galaxies(such as our own) have supermassive black holes at their cores, but there isn't much evidence to prove that theory(other than the shape of the galaxy, which suggests something very, very dense at the core).

Matter which enters a Black Hole is not destroyed; it is either added to the Black Hole's mass...which you would never notice, as we're talking objects less than the width of a tennis ball that have more matter in them than the sun (it's also theorized that black holes are so dense that they simply mush all mass entering them into one big subatomic particle- that would mean gravity so strong no known force could resist it)...or it is converted into energy, releasing the aforementioned X-Rays, which are the only known emission of a black hole.

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"Although I do not consider myself a member of the Bounty Hunters' Guild, I find that their goals and mine often follow the same path. I will aid them when I can...if they give me a percentage of the salvage from whatever they frag along the way. But god help them if someone puts a bounty on THEIR heads, for I don't care who I hunt for, as long as their live capture(or untimely death) can get me enough credits to buy a decent sized mug of my favorite drink."- A Freelance Bounty Hunter.
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Anub- damn, what IS the plural for that? Anubii? Anubises? Anubice?

Edited by - NukeIt on 1/3/2004 6:31:46 PM

My theory on White Holes and Black Holes is thus:

My KFC Bargain bucket enters my White Hole thus, and the prosess of nature compresses it down to its constituant parts where it emerges out of my Black Hole thus, whereby it re-enters another white hole type vortex where it getys flushed out into the sea of space time.

Stupid Grin.

More seriously, i have seen in a piccie of the game a 'quantum singularity type effect: a black disk with jets of matter coming out and a ring of glowing matter.

What system is that per se?

Indeed, light wave-particle theory has been hotly debated ever since it was first theorized by the brilliant (yet eccentric) physicist Schrödinger. By definition, waves need a medium through which they can travel, yet light can travel through the vacuum of space (imagine ocean waves minus the water). Gravity (the universe's most consistantly predictable force) bends light, as though it were a stream of high-energy particles with finite inertial forces. This is why black holes are called that. Once light passes beyond the event horizon of a black hole, the gravity always turns the light completely around back towards the singularity.

Some similar quantum-theory topics:

Tachyons: Theoretical faster-than-light particles, never observed in real life, but mentioned more often than hamburgers on Star Trek. Freelancer features long-range Tachyon weapons.

Time dilation: Fortunately, Freelancer's jump-holes maintain a stable temproal position, otherwise my Titan could easily be chilling in the distant future. Why not the past, you say? I agree with Hawking's Continuity Protection Conjecture, witch is that although it may be mathematically feasible to travel backward in time by the classic laws of physics, subtle quantum forces will always conspire to inhibit it (sort of a temporal terminal velocity).

Why did I post this? To fuel my fragile ego, I suppose.

Nope, no black holes, as such, but there IS a Neutron Star in the Omega 41 system (I'll post a screenshot sometime), which rates highest on my list of coolest things in Sirius, as it just looks incredibly badass.

Hey, those anomaly things are a bit like white holes, aren't they?

see, a black hole basically just amounts to the singularity at the centre. the event horizon, and the fairly huge zone of space that people think of as a black hole, is just that region of space where the gravitational pull of the singularity is sufficiently high for the required escape velociy to be greater than the speed of light. hence the name.

If the escape velocity is equal to or greater than the speed of light, then any light entering that region doesn't have a hope of ever getting out, as light always moves at the exact same speed, regardless of where it came from.

however, from there, the theories diverge. one states that any object passing the event horizon will, eventually, slam down into the singularity, and be compacted down until it forms an infinitely small layer of nondescript matter layered onto the greater mass of the infinitely small singularity, thereby increasing its total mass by a small amount.

the other theory goes that anything entering a black hole and hitting the singularity will be forced through a hole in the universe and squirted back out of a White hole, the exact opposite of a Black hole which, supposedly, spews all the mater consumed by its opposite number back into normal space.

perhaps those anomalies are white holes?

A black hole is the final stage for some stars with more than 4 solar masses. They occur when a Neutron Star's gravity continues to cause itself to collapse (not implode, more like packing a snowball denser) until all of its mass is in one neutron). The gravity of this neutron is so massive, that light cannot escape it. It will continue to "acquire" more mass for the rest of its life (forever?).

To clarify your question Viper, black holes actually don't last forever. They are thought to slowly "decay", losing about 1 atom every second or so (This is disregarding the fact that in some situations, black holes will jet our matter). But since a black hole probably sucks in matter faster than it could get rid of it, it could never practicly lose all of its matter. If it was in a situation to do so, however, it would still take trillions of years.
Earlier, someone stated, while explaining the death of large stars, that after the Hydrogen is gone, the star gains mass therefore gravity and is crunched into it's self. That isn't what actually happens (Im really sorry if im killing that part of your post). When a star, take our sun for example, is running through the process of fusion, there is an immense amount of pressure pushing out from the core (where the fusion occurs) on the rest of the star. The pressure is just right to counter the gravity. However, once the star runs out of gas, the pressure is no longer high enough to hold back the gravity and the star colapses. And, as said by many others, the bigger they are the harder they fall.
The star, in a bit of death scene, burns off the last of it's fuel in a relativly short amount of time. This is anywhere from the star going a bit reddish and gaining just a litte more size, to completly exploding in a hypernova (yes, hypernova, bigger than a supernova, and is reserved for the very rare supermassive stars. They have been recorded to give off as much light as the galaxy they were seen in at the time). In the case of the Sun, it will turn red and grow so large that it will nearly overtake the orbit of Earth (Called a Red Giant - Want a simulation, head on down to Omega-11). After this has occured, the star, again depending on size and mass, can either simply shrink down to the size of Earth and burn out to a small grey mass, or in certain situations, like a super nova, or even a very large red giant, it will shrink to an incredibly dense neutron star. The neutron star in Omega-41 isnt very accurate as neutron stars in reality are known to have a radius less that 6 miles! Stars can stay that way or go even smaller and become the great misnomer of astronomy, the black hole. As far as hypernovas are concerned, I have heard from one source that the massive explosion spreads the matter too fast for it to reform a gravity well (and start the whole neutron star process). I have also heard, from a different source, that hypernovas form the supermassive blackholes theroized to be at the heart of our, as well as other, galaxies. lol I meant to clarify one minor error and ended up blabbing on about supermassive junk. Oh well, I could go on for along time about Quasars, and how at the level of black hole the two different types of physics (large-scale and quantum, which both contradict each other) are merged making blacks holes a massive headache for scientists leaving only the string and "M" theory left as the only plausible "rule set" of the universe even though they haven't been scientificly proven... But this post started with some guy wondering if there are any blackholes in Freelancer, and the answer is no.