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I HATE the Nav Map

If you are stuck in a mission and do not know how to continue, this is the place to ask for help. Missing that elusive Level 10 Shield? Don''t know where to find the lost Ohtori ship? This is the only place where spoilers are allowed!

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Frobozz

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:28 pm

I HATE the Nav Map

Am I the only one who hates the Nav Map? If a sequel is made,
NOW is the time for us (the FS community) to complain.

Case 1:

What happens: Enter a new system. You see the Trade Lanes,
and maybe some planets (some say 'Unknown') and nothing else.
This makes no sense. How can major bases along the Trade Lanes
and *Planets* be a mystery to the computer? Humans been there
for centuries, and nobody made & published a MAP???

What Should happen: Enter a system, see everything along the
Trade Lanes. Some info on bases/planets are available, but
details like Commodity Prices are not.

Case 2:

What happens: Enter a new system. Instantly, your Nav Map
knows all Patrol Routes, Friendly - Neutral - Enemy.
HOW??? How can ANY faction have 'Secret' bases with this?

What Should happen: Flying through space (NOT in trade lane)
if you get close enough to a Patrol Path, your sensors detect
the exhaust trail. Analysis tells who it is an what direction
it runs. Map builds slowly. I would allow correct lengths of paths,
I'm not _that_ an@l. This don't work too near bases, pollution.

Case #3

What happens: Fly though an asteroid field. Nothing appears on
your radar (target status menu) Come out other side.
Now look at your Nav Map. Bingo! Nice red 'X's mark every Wreck.
Click on 'X' and get all the history too. If the computer knew
all this, why the H3LL not say so before??

What Should happen: Fly though an asteroid field. Radar says
'Unknown Object'. Fly closer. Radar says 'Unknown Ship'.
Get close enough to Scan Cargo - 'O' and ship registry is
detected and the registry database flags the 'Lost' ship.
NOW the stoopid 'X' and history are on your map!
It's just too d@mn easy to get Class 10 guns! I found nine
before I could buy class 8 guns!

Sorry for the rant, but...

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

Benja

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:54 pm

case 3 dousnt happen 2 me i get the x's just as i fly past

WarPig

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:51 pm

I could post many hypotheses regarding the way the nav map was built, but they all would say either to make the game simpler or more complex, thus negating each other. Let's get to the bread and butter here.

I completely agree, Frobozz, that in your Cases 1 and 3 you are correct. It would make for some interesting gameplay too, scanning a wreck and getting attacked...pirates waiting in ambush, that sort of thing. That opens a WHOLE new dimension to the idea that pirates are pirates! (duh) And of course, having everything along the trade lanes listed would make more sense, seeing as the docking rings themselves tell you where you're going, even if in the distance the planet is still "unknown."

While I agree with you on those 2 points, I have seen (at least in my mp game) something akin to what you speak of regarding patrol routes. I had entered one of the Tau systems, and was just cruising along with my nav map up, and as I approached and passed patrol routes, they became visible to me. Not as detailed as your ideal "pan and scan" technique, but a scaled down version of it. Many of the computer's functions we have to take for granted, I know.

All in all, it would be a great addition, IMHO, to add something more detailed to the whole neural net interface, combining the scanning of ships with their history and type, etc. Great Idea!


The difficult we do immediately; the impossible just takes longer.

NukeIt

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:08 pm

Know what I want? Dockable wrecks. More specifically, Dockable wrecked bases and battleships. You dock, go to the "commodity trader", and pick up salvage from inside the wreck. Somehow I don't think shooting a large derelict would make it release guns or internal components.

More wrecks you can fly in is good too...more wrecks like the Hispania, in other words, maybe a Battleship with a blown out docking bay you can enter and fly through, or an armored transport you can hide under. Those places could be used nicely as ambush points near a stash of lootable wrecks or a mineable zone.

Also, I want destroyed large objects to LEAVE derelicts. Remember how in Starlancer, when a large ship or base was destroyed, it would crumble and leave major blackened chunks behind for the rest of the mission? Like that. Although FL capitals DO leave chunks, they disappear long before you'll ever leave the area, and large bases(the ones in the missions you can take) just vanish into thin...space. When you blow up something that big, it should STAY there for the rest of the time you're in that system.

Reaper: $200,000,000.
Rockets: $100,000
The look on that pilot's face when you launch a full pod of screamers up his tailpipe: priceless

Frobozz

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:34 pm

WarPig, I never thought of that... Pirates playing possum.
I just was thinking of stationary objects. I never played MP,
so I'm surprised by what you say. Why isn't it the same in SP?
I am 99% positive it's as I describe in SP.

"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

WarPig

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:46 pm

Well, I, on the other hand, haven't played much of the SP. Now, I've checked patrol routes in known space (Rheinland, Liberty, etc) and they seem to come up fairly quickly, but on edge or border systems, at least the first time I go there, it was adding them as I flew...could be the server I was on, I suppose...

Yes, the pirate idea just came to me, but it would make non-mission exploring that much more fun, especially if they could scale the pirates according to your level like they do most baddies. You're thinking, "Ooh! New derelict to explore!" and they're thinking, "Heh heh heh, fresh meat!"

The difficult we do immediately; the impossible just takes longer.

Fizzle12383

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:51 pm

it blows, hopefully better wit hthe patch

Work it Harder, Make it Better,
Do it Faster, Makes us Stronger.

redeye

Post Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:45 pm

I totally agree with you on case #1 - i wasted far too much time after i had explored the borderworlds fannying around in legal space (getting the hell shot out of me by wave after wave of cops, which was just annoying cause they are so weak by that point) checking out the locations of huge planets and space stations.

I'm not saying i wouldnt have done it anyway to check prices or look for trade routes but it was a waste of time.

However, for me in SP anyway, your suggestions for case #'s 2+3 do happen. If i pass over or very close to a patrol path it picks up the general direction of the vapour trail (or whatever it is) and plots it up to about a sectors distance away. Then you have to fly over to the end of it and see where it goes. Spent ages finding all the secret jumpholes etc.

Ditto with the wrecks, in some cases i had to fly really close to get them, at point i was playing in 2d in the neural net, steering badly just patrol path/wreck spotting.

Was it in MP you had the problems?

Unpro

Post Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:54 am

Come on guys, it's microsoft! A thousand years into the future and their marketing strategy hasn't changed. The next freelancer patch will most probably only solve this by giving a better nav map...

..and I just wonder, where do I buy one of those?...

Frobozz

Post Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:22 pm

OK, on case #2 I had just entered the system for the first time.
Only thing visible is the Trade Routes. I didn't move. I click
on patrol paths and bingo!... all of them.

On case #3 it depends on the system. Not all systems are the same
size, they scale to fit the Nav Map. What I describe is best seen
in Sigma 13. In New York it's HARD to find wrecks. This may be
at work with case #2 as well, but I doubt it.


"Got anything for me?" - Trent, A.K.A. 'Mr. Eloquent'

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