Remember, remember, the 5th of November..

Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:56 am by flybyu

"P.S. I didn't vote incumbent on ANYTHING but the state supreme court - i am an independent voter, in the sense that i hate democan'ts and repuglicans for having no discernable principles (platitudes they have aplenty) - watching them strategize raises bile in my throat and hate in my idealist's soul."

Same here I voted out all the old dogs and in with the new, this is the only way we the people can get this country back, if every election we vote out everyone that was in it will send a message to the next leaders, that says you listen to the people not big companies.

"American politics is no fun at all, in comparison; they all stand there graven faced and serious when the Speaker says "Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States!" - no-one boos or laughs or throws anything - very boring."

Hey now in this great free country of ours we get put in jail for yelling at our President/Der Reich Fuhrer. Just a few weeks ago a school bus driver gave the President/Der Reich Fuhrer the bird and lost his job, so if he is not sending our jobs to Mexico/China he gets us fired. Don't voice your opinion here in the U.S. or loss everything you have/love. I just love freedom don't you?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:24 pm by Indy11

what i meant by religious tolerance is that we haven't spent the last millennium sorting out our sectarian problems at the ends of muskets and torches

Fair enough although the C/P divide in England and by extension in No. Ireland, really is about politics and really NOT about God.

Whereas, here, the C/P divide wasn't about God either but more about discrimiination against ethnicity.

We've only had a few *statesmen* and *orators* in the 20th Century and the I don't know that we have any left in the 21st. I suppose you could offer up Sen. Byrd of W. Virginia as a Statesman but he's getting kind of old and grey.

I happen to agree that it is time to have a change from the current Bi-Partisan oligopoly but I remain unimpressed by the choices offered to me as the *third* way,

Edited by - Indy11 on 11/7/2006 4:26:48 PM

Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:22 pm by Cold_Void

jumping on a third party bandwagon can be just the slap in the face two stagnant and complacent bodies need. for example theodore roosevelt's bull moose party transformed the political landscape for the better but didn't survive roosevelt leaving it. and in the last decade we saw the reform party, led by the radical republican ross perot and later pat buchanan(?), which weakened republican support and handed the election to clinton(heh, hope i've got my history right). if enough democrats and republicans abandoned their parties (as the 'unity party' hopes for in '08) it could stimulate them to actually come up with some principles they can agree on and then follow, which the voters can then judge.

no vote is wasted, unless it's not counted (or routed to Diebold)

Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:46 pm by Indy11

American politics is no fun at all, in comparison; they all stand there graven faced and serious when the Speaker says "Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States!" - no-one boos or laughs or throws anything - very boring.

Not being a monarchy, the equivalent would be were Parliament to boo and catcall the Queen when she addresses it.

Not that it wouldn't be interesting to see.

Besides who needs Congress to make fun of the President when Hugo Chavez is willing to do it in front of the UN General Assembly? A sign of the times?

Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:14 am by Tawakalna

boo and catcall the Queen

well, it did used to happen!

18th/early 19th C, the monarchy was grossly disrespected, George IV was pelted with rotten vegetables as his coach went past in the street, and at the time of your Revolution (against us) there were many on the Whig benches who echoed your republican sentiments and said "well, if the American Colonists can dispense with the dratted King, then so can we!" (hence why we have a Loyal Opposition, because for a long long time the Whig Govts of the day were actively hostile to the Monarchs, and only the Tory rump maintained the Monarchy - much to the entertainment of the vicious lampoonists of the day!)

nd don't forget that during the Diana debacle, the Monarchy's mask slipped somewhat and the double-edged sword of playing to the public through the popular media turned back on them. In the weeks after Diana's death, there was popular discontent with the Monarchy the like of which hadn't been encountered certainly since the Abdication crisis in the '30s and in some ways since before Victorian times.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 11/8/2006 1:28:27 AM

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:15 am by Locutov

I don't wish to be thpoilthport... but it wasn't Duke William of Orange who sat on the English throne

it was William the IIIrd he was a descendant from William of Orange though, but not him, as William of Orange was assassinated in 1584

William III (known in Dutch as Willem III) was steward of the united seven provinces of the Nether Lands, while also being Stadtholder of the province of Holland. he got basically asked to be the English king, as he was married to the English queen, Martha Stuart, who was I believe a protestant, rather then have a Catholic King on the Throne, they asked William III to be king, as he was protestant.

thus ends the lecture

and I will not continue in danger of getting close to modern day politics

Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:42 am by flybyu

Locutov as long as we do it in fun there should be no problems with modern day politics. It just when people get there feathers in a fluff over poking fun at leader figures is when threads have to be locked. Keep it lite and don't get angry and have fun.

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:09 am by Tawakalna

akshuly, when I was at school we just called him "the WilliamanMary, otherwise known the Glorious Orange."

"The WILLIAMANMARY for some reason was known as The Glorious Orange in their own country of Holland, and were popular as King of England because the people naturally believed it was descended from Nell Glyn. It was on the whole a good King and one of their first Acts was the Toleration Act, which said they would tolerate anything, though afterwards it went back on this and decided that they could not tolerate the Scots. The Scots were now in a skirling uproar because James II was the last of the Scottish Kings and England was under the rule of the Dutch Orange; it was there-fore decided to put them in charge of a very fat man called Cortez and transport them to a Peak in Darien, where it was hoped they would be more silent."

ah, textbook history, don't'cha just love it!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:39 am by Locutov

Nice Flybyu... I see in you a fine moderator in the makings... just as I once was

nahhh, the politics I adhere to tend to be very inflammatory to Forums, and tend to divide the forum a bit, so as not to provoke a row, ill keep me trap shut about connections ok??

hmmmm, naturally Taw, I have a very different look upon William III, he became king in a rather troubled time for the Netherlands, as in 1672 the 7 united provinces had just been invaded by no less then three Major countries, being the French, the English and the Germans (iirc) that particular year is known to Dutch History as the DisasterYear, although cessation of fighting with the Germans and the English soon came to pass, France, being at that time a rather large fighting force, didn't want to hear of it and kept on fighting, William also took the English throne out of tactical opportunity (can't blame him really

) so as to defeat the French with a combined army.

Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:56 am by Tawakalna

I was quoting from "1066, and all That"

(and it was Munster and Cologne, as Germany didn't actually exist at the time and post-Treaty of Westphalia was divided up into a myriad of petty competing states)

Edited by - Tawakalna on 11/10/2006 10:02:46 AM

Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:19 pm by Locutov

Taw, true, as I focussed my study of history onto other areas, my Dutch History has kinda slipped but the basics are still there.

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