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And in this corner..

This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.

Post Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:50 am

And in this corner..

When light travels interstellar distances do you really think nothing happens to it along the way to cause altered red/blue shift and therefore incorrect universal expansion and universal age theories.

Caution, light still has not been defined as either a particle or a wave. However it is sometimes called a wavicle (imaginitive, isn't it?).

Anything is fair game, from possible effects of pinpoint black holes, spacetime curvature irregularities, gravity waves, light being accelerated or decelerated through a mass (yes it HAS been done), to Zorg the Destroyer of Worlds. Although please limit Zorg like comments to a reasonable (and arguable) length (in other words, short).

Feel free to be obscure and obtuse.

Try to keep flames to a minimum (unless labeled OBVIOUSLY AND CLEARLY as being pertinent and not insulting or intentionally causing emotional harm). After all, this is supposed to be a friendly debate. I respectfully ask the mods to hammer into the ground anyone breaking this rule.

Try your best to back up your viewpoint (if possible). However, some things can just hit a person as unlikely to the point of ridiculous so ask the poster about them if you don't get or believe it.

Let the games begin.

The SpaceNuts always return.

Post Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:24 pm

Okay, I'll start but I can't confess to know a great deal about astronomy or theoretical physics.
Using wave theory, light from a source travelling away from you would have an increased wavelength, essentially each wave is being slightly increased. This causes a shift in its perceived colour towards the red end of the visual spectrum. The opposite happens with an object moving towards you and creates a shift towards the blue end of the visual spectrum.

Not sure what the stuff about space-time curvature and gravitational waves is about entirely. Any chance you could explain it in layperson's terms?

Post Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:03 pm

Gravitational waves is a theory that simply moving your arm creates a small gravitatinoal oscillation (Like a sound or light wave. think of the gravity your arm is giving off. highpoint of the wave. now your arm is gone, the wave is lower)

On a different topic, there is an argument that all phtons in the universe are the same age from whence they were created at the big bang. this is INCORRECT. although relatavistic distortion causes the photons to experience 0 travel time, a phton coming from the sun is not actually very old in universal time.
As soon as a photon impacts an object (Like a mirror), its energy is absorbed into the objects electron shells, causing them to jump around a bit, and then release another photon in order to return to base energy state. Now, this photon is of the EXACT SAME wavelength as the original photon, so its not the original photon, but one that looks identical. Now, interestingly, this means that you are not looking at the same light produced by your face when you look in a mirror. It is an identical photon configuration created as a result of the light from your face striking the mirror surface.

Now, onto something i have been VERY eager to discuss. it is possible to travel faster than light!
Now, anyone with a basic knowledge of relativity will know that as you get faster, time will go slower. Now, it is also known that, relative to a stationary observer, you cannot go fatster than c , the speed of light, or 299,792,458 metres per second (In other words, mind-bogglingly fast).
Now, let us propose an experiment where one has a ship, that can easily obtain relatavistic velocities, in open space, sitting near a track of interstellar beacons spaced about 2000 km apart. Now, the ship only knows how far the beacons are apart, so, it simply measures the amount of time between the passing of one beacon and the next. Now, as his clock is running slower as he gains speed, he will record less and less time between each beacon pass, and thus interpret that as greater speed.
THIS excel spreadsheet shows it alot better
Now, this is actually interesting, as the subjective speed of the spacecraft actually approaches infinity as the craft approaches c.
Interesting, huh?
(Do correct me if i got my formulas wrong. Most sites i went to for reference on this seemed to be deliberately vague and never gave me a rock-hard answer)

Post Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:09 am

Observed vs. actual speed isn't a problem here... The problem is MASS. As you go faster, your mass increases (mass as a measure of inertia), and it becomes harder and harder for you to accelerate. As it nears infinity, you need nearly infinite force to accelerate (a = F/m, a = acceleration, F = needed force, m = mass). Now I know that standing mass and high-velocity mass aren't one and the same, I just use this to illustrate what happens (the actual factor is momentum )
Even photons, which have no standing mass (when they stop, they disappear - to stop them, you must absorb their energy), *act* like they do have mass, simply because they have momentum. You could say (and be wrong, but this is a simplified illustration) that a photon has 0 mass which is multiplied by infinity (Lorentz factor is inf. @ the speed of light) and get a singular mass, the smallest amount of mass any particle may have. This is also the reason light is considered both a wave and a particle... (well, actually, everything is, but more about that later)
So, no, it is not possible to travel faster than light, we have no means to make matter (particles) behave like radiation (waves) without 'destroying' it. (actually, converting to energy, since mass and energy are two possible states of any existance in this universe)

Post Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:25 am

I am just wondering, if space ships(a and b) travelled apart at the speed of 250 Mm/s (megameters, a thousand thousand meters) the distance between would increase by 500Mm/s so acording to that could A travell away at 500Mm/s from startionary B, by alowing the extra speed from the princible above???

Edited by - NuttyProSci-Fi3000 on 6/24/2006 12:37:53 PM

Post Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:13 pm

Not really... the speed you could potentially have a large spreading speed (that is, the combined speeds of the two objects). The speed of one may appear higher relative to the other object.

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