i enjoyed the film when it came out although i have never been a big fan of Robin Williams, he's just too frenetic for me (although he was good in that one where he played a psycho)

rather a mawkish and obvious plot, Neil was always doomed one way or another. Clearly you're meant to sympathise with the teacher and hate the militaristic bullying father, yet if this was real, someone like Keating would never have got a job there, he's far too non-conformist. So in that sense, although it makes a good tragic drama, it doesn't ring true. it's not awful, but it is formulaic, pedestrian, and actually has an almost Disney feel about it in its very simplistic and highly subjective plot. I went to a very posh strict church school myself so I can to an extent sympathise with the students' predicament but people like Mr Keating just don't exist, except in the fillums. Real people that he could be compared to are much more complex and don't jump around like headless chickens spouting *carpe diem*

I'm a great admirer of Peter Weir's films but this imo isn't one of his best, although it did very well at the box-office and since on VHS/DVD. I don't think he's comfortable with a very American script; the sentimentality is a signal feature of his more typical (and better) work such as Gallipoli and The Truman Show but he's usual less obvious about it, and the dark humour that runs through his work is lacking evidence in DPS. Watch his other main films, Year of Living Dangerously, Witness, Green Card and Master & Commander and you'll see what I mean.

to be fair, DPS was I think Weir's first film after he moved to the US and he had much less artistic freedom working for the Hollywood studios than he had in Oz. His new bosses insisted he *americanise* his work and i read somewhere that the pressure got to him so much he nearly jacked in his film-making career! Also the writer, no connection to Weir, based Keating's character on one of his fondly remembered schoolteachers so there was a reason for the one-sidedness and sentimentality of the script, that subjectivity ousting Weir's characteristic directorial objectivity (at the behest of the studio)

Picnic at Hanging Rock remains for me his masterpiece, followed by Gallipoli as his best major-feature film, although I did love Master & Commander. Green Card, Gerard was great, Andie McD not so good (she is rather wet) However, YoLD is a superb use of complex real political and civil turmoil, Witness is a gripping drama although I'm not a fan of Harrison F at all (but it was spoilt by the overuse of sentimentailty again which as Ive said, I don't think is Weirs strong point)

but he is a very capable and talented director, of that there's no doubt; you've chosen the film that imo shows his distinctive talents least. And Williams is prob his worst leading man, all you see is Robin Williams clowning around, not the character. Mel is much better for him, Mel is totally believable in Gallipoli and YoLD. Big Russ is superb in M&C. Gerard Depardieu? the man is the world's greatest living actor (except maybe for de Niro) he's utterly convincing no matter what he does. I thought Green Card would be a washout and I don't like romantic comedies much, but GD really brings it on. Loved the piano scene, and when he slipped up at the immmigration interview, well I really felt that hit home. depardieu would have been a much better choice for the teacher's role in DPS, except he's French and can't do an American accent.

anyhoo, if you want to see some better contemprorary films on a similar theme to DPS, try Tin Soldiers or With Honours, both of which handle the same territory much more confidently and without the gushy emotiionalism. Go back even further and you can watch To Sir With Love and The Blackboard Jungle, which really set the formula for the teacher-inspiring-students genre, then compare DPS to them and you'll see straight away that its a very ordinary and uninspired production compared to them. Or even Goodbye Mr Chips (Iany version) No not you Mike G.

and in answer to your final question, no I do not think its right for parents to choose their children's future direction; as a parent i can assure you that while i've tried to give my own children every opportunity, their life decisions must be theirs and theirs alone. I have always encouraged them to follow their own paths (because my parents wouldnt let me choose mine) and I didn't have a Mr Keating exhorting me to carp the deme




Edited by - Tawakalna on 11/20/2005 1:31:42 PM

I had to watch that for school.

sad movie

I was the only person in my group of friends that slated this movie when it came out. I really was not impressed with it at all. It wasn't because of Robin Williams though, nor was it because of the terrible terrible script...it was in my opinion yet another film that pretended to be deep and meaningful, but under the surface was only slapped together to pull in the teenage girls market.

It followed the same mold as Memphis Belle - something we covered in another thread a couple of days ago - the "boy band" factor. There was a series of films in the late 80s/early 90s which capitalised on the "boy band" factor way before the major boy band trend took into music - and imo, this was one of them.

Its a shame really, with the likes of Peter Weir and (granted a very young) Ethan Hawke, it could have been much much better. And for the record, I quite like Robin Williams' serious acting - especially in Awakenings, One Hour Photo and Insomnia (the later being his strongest part imo). But this film did nothing for me.

Apologies sw that I haven't answered your question as such - but due to my dislike of the film as a whole, I find it hard to comment on an individual character.

that's ok plasticine dog, i answered for you

One Hour Photo, that's the one! I enjoyed that. Awakenings, again soppy and mawkish but de Niro was excellent (as ever)

ever get the impression that we watch too many fillums?

lol. yeah I'm beginning to think that way

I enjoyed Awakenings though, but you're right it was over-sentimental...and truth be known, extremely inaccurate. One hour photo was spoilt for me a little bit, having seen insomnia earlier that same week...imo he should have given the two movies a wide berth - it would have been better for his career.

I thought dead poets was pretty good, but I was young when I saw it - and haven't seen it since.

I also thought Robin Williams put in good performances in Good Will Hunting, and although I find it tough to remember it, in the Fisherking as well.

I preferred Jeff in The Fisher King. Much more laid back peformance, as well as the always under-rated and really rather lovely Mercedes Ruehl.

I've often tried to figure out where the Fisher King fits into Gilliam's oeuvre; it's not part of his *loose trilogy* of Time bandits/Brazil/Baron Munchausen, but many of the same themes are there. it's rather more like 12 Monkeys, but that's a much beter crafted film. The *vision* scenes in TFK where Parry (RW) sees the Red Knight are particularly strong, but for me anyways it's Jeff who carries the film. Williams gets annoying in it.

to my shame I haven't seen Good Will Hunting

Heh, there was a Radio Interview with Gilliam by Jonathon Woss about 3 weeks back, where they discussed all his movies. It may still be available on BBC radio, but I haven't checked.
Never knew it was he who did Baron Munchausen (or however it's spelt), but should have known (mother made me watch it when I was young, saying I'd love it - and she was right)... but they mentioned the Fisher King during that period. They did go over 12 monkeys and how you have to watch it several times to actually understand it... I remember watching it once, and considering that once too many

Always liked Jeff Bridges, but that is probabily due to seeing alot of his movies when I was small (same with John Candy), and not too much about his actual acting

there is another older version of Baron Munchausen which is also visually stunning ans equally entertaining, but it was made by UFA in 1943. UFA was the German state film company and part of Dr Goebbel's propaganda Ministry, so y'know it's hard to convince yourself to make the effort to go find these things. But, despite its origins, it is actually a dam fine film, well-made, well-acted, great cinematography and a very entertaining screenplay. I'll give the little club-footed doktor this - he could make some crackin films. Kolberg for instance, directly comparable to Gone with the Wind in many ways, superb production; Goebbels cleverly made sure his propaganda films didnt actually appear to be overtly propaganda films, and he was a great admirer of Walt Disney. But then, Walt was *allegedely* a great admirer of Der Fuhrer

Taw trivia factoid - Robin William's appearance in Gilliam's TAoBM as the King of the Moon isn't credited; he appears under a pseudonym of "Rey del Luno" (a pun King of the Moon) Made at Cinécitta in Rome, hence why all the italian actors/actresses and references. They make such good big films at Cinécitta, you can go for a studio tour there, fascinating, much better than the Hollywood tours.
And in another historical tie-in, Cinécitta was set up by Mussolini.

Edited by - Tawakalna on 11/21/2005 10:08:09 PM

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to my shame I haven't seen Good Will Hunting

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shame on you!

good film actually, very good. I'm quite a fan of Matt Damon and Minnie Driver though which definitely helps...also it was a role that was ideal for Robin Williams too.

y'see, I don't really like Matt Damon that much. He's at his best imo spoofing himself in Kevin Smith films. But I'll check out GWH on your recommendation

okedokee, but if ya don't like it - i didn't recommend it lol.

did you not like damon in the bourne films?

I knew you'd mention Bourne! Bourne Identity was a cracking film, although I can think of any number of contemporary leading men who'd have carried it off just as well. Supremacy was so-so. They were both on SKy the other week so iw atched em back to back.