The thread was not locked because it was directed at the administration. It was locked because it had fallen into a pattern of entirely hostile material. Rules were laid down in the forums for a reason, it is a shame that people break rules simply for the purpose of breaking rules. The fact of the matter is the material was going to get people flamed, no matter what they said, FD did what was necessary to prevent the flames. That's all, no if's and's or but's about it.

Taw wasn't breaking a rule for the sake of breaking rules, he was raising a valid point. It sounded hostile, sure, but for something to qualify as flaming it really has to be both mindless and hostile--insulting someone for the sake of insulting them. Otherwise it's merely impassioned, but still with reason its only an argument. And quite a valid one.

What can I say? Bigotry seems to be a spectre haunting TLR. The thread tried to stop it--and of course the other disgusting mod behaviour.

To answer Chips' question on the other thread, I did not discuss the issue with Eraser or bp, but I did discuss it with Finalday before I started the thread. No result. Why should we email as opposed to writing a complaint on a forum? If the topic gets heated, so what, as long as you let members respond to each other's points equally and fairly.

Edited by - Wilde on 3/1/2005 5:37:31 PM

Wilde, the reason is because then you can ask the admins to take your views into consideration and make a decision about whether the moderator was correct or not. They can (and have done) overturn it by opening up the thread, reversing the decisions - and accordingly 'slap' the moderator responsible IF they agree with your views. Attacking moderators won't make them change, because all views differ, yours may not necessarily be right or clear to judge. Being told by the admins that your view isn't in line with the 'sites' view WILL make you change your policy though........however, public attempts NEVER succeed in doing this, for the simple reason that humiliation is not an effect, constructive or even good way of changing perceptions/attitudes.

Seeing as you can sue employers for humiliation, it gives an indication as to how dimly a view is taken in the general world by that method. The only exceptions are with governments, where they were elected by the people to act on their behalf, with their best interests - at which point they need to explain to all their actions. Moderators are not elected, and are not there for your best interests - but interests for the site - hence why humiliation is not an acceptable method of change. If BP and Eraser deemed your view correct, then they would open up the thread. Contra to some peoples claims, they don't just put up a staunch 'Your wrong, the moderator is right' at all, and do consider peoples views. The only catch is that you have to be able to accept their decision as well - so if they agree, its in your favour. If they disagree - then thats the end of it....period. However, its that part which people will not accept. If they disagree with something, if they are told then by the admins that they are wrong, and the moderator was right - they just assume the admin is wrong. People rarely consider the fact that they can possibly be wrong.

But public threads aren't humiliation attempts of the moderators, they're trying to set up a thread in which people can constructively criticize the not-so-fine points of the site. The point is, do you want the site to get better? Do you want people to stop leaving? Then listen to what they have to say in a public discussion instead of secluded emails.

Unfortunately that is when things become heated - because if they disagree with what we say, then all hell breaks loose. It appears the only time a public discussion will not get locked is when we give in to whatever demands are made. There has never been any ground by members - if they disagreed, they left. There was no meeting in the middle on their behalf.

Yes, improvements are being made, but everything takes time. Bad decisions are made sometimes by some of us, but going for the juggular in public is not helpful (which is exactly what was happening again, and I personally am sick of it). If that was not the intent, then please read that thread again from our perspective and say you wouldn't take that view if you were receiving it instead. I personally do not see how that thread could have gone 'uphill' from there......only descent and more harsh comments would come. One post is all it needs to turn from a critique, into a public hanging/witch hunt. It happened last time, and it was happening again. It was wrong, although I know some will think they were justified........but in my opinion - there is no justification for attacking someone like that.

If everyone who disagreed with decision by us posted about it, then I am sure the forum would be full of it. The reason? Because any decision is always disagreed with by someone.............simply because it stops what they wanted etc. Some will be valid points (yours can be said to be valid depending upon standpoints), others like "omfg wtf you lock my f*** topic you nazi b***** because I want to post p0rn". No, your threads aren't similar - but the precident for posting grievences in public (in my opinion) is the same.......and is wrong. Anyone who disagrees with a decision can email the moderator - not just the creator of the thread. Anyone who read your post could email Finalday to say they disagreed - thats the general idea. Lots of people doing that will possibly make a change...........

Anyway, its 2.25am and I have work in 4.5hours (7am). Well, I hope my posts help, otherwise I have wasted my time in trying to explain, and coulda had a nice nights sleep instead

Alright i love TLR and i'll be honest. i dont want or like seeing it torn apart. But sometimes you must fight and hurt what you care about.

Can one man, or a goup of people claim ownership of a community? Face it mods without the non-mods you would have no purpose here, and the community wouldnt be much.

But i think this can work out, i and all must try to be understanding and keep our cool.... its ahrd

I understand your perspective Chips, and now I guess I understand why the other thread was locked...but I guess what I'm up in arms about is the fact that there's this element of homophobia that is a spectre haunting TLR, and I personally am very upset about it. Mais, c'est la vie...

The other problem, is of course that of the deleting fairy, who still hasn't stepped forward and admitted to what they did.

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but I guess what I'm up in arms about is the fact that there's this element of homophobia that is a spectre haunting TLR, and I personally am very upset about it.

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Sorry for the words that I'm going to choose but what the crap are you talking about? Just because one thread gets locked (I'm not saying wether it was right to lock that thread) and suddenly the whole staff of TLR is suffering from homophobia (which would be partially ironical). Next time when there's a discussion about left-wing politics and someone closes it are we all facists?!

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Face it mods without the non-mods you would have no purpose here, and the community wouldnt be much.

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I always love it when people start "threatening" us like that.

Edited by - Wizard on 3/1/2005 7:34:42 PM

It's not just that, I'm not a retard (ok, that's debatable ). I've also been talking to certain members about it, and especially some of their comments on here, and it's not exactly an uncommon thing (in fact one particularly colourful discussion was the inspiration for the original thread). Just think about it: if I posted a thread called "Guy trouble", which went along the lines of undoubtably there would be a very audible *Click* that would follow soon. And I would agree with DSQrn here--mods themselves might not be homophobes, but censoring topics like that (I'm working from the assumption that if there WERE a topic, it would be censored) on the basis of "I'm unbiased here/won't offer an opinion, but some people might be insulted" is a slippery mental slope.

One thing is for certain: Members (I am most certainly guilty of this, and trying to change) have to stop taking deletion/locking so personally, and mods have to stop taking criticism personally.

i wasnt threatening, i was stating that you cant have a goverment with no-one to govern.

**Wizard: I added a smiley to my original post, it was meant in a funny way. Sorry for the miscommunication from my part**

Edited by - Wizard on 3/1/2005 7:35:35 PM

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Just think about it: if I posted a thread called "Guy trouble", which went along the lines of undoubtably there would be a very audible *Click* that would follow soon.

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You know what? I think you're wrong. (Surprised? Didn't think so.) A thread like that likely wouldn't be locked because the issue there isn't homosexuality. Sure, it may be latent, but it's not the point of the thread itself. That is a significant and fundamental difference between a relationship thread and a thread dealing with homosexuality as a standalone issue. Asking for relationship advice is one thing, and ultimately sexual orientation/preference isn't an issue, debating the issue of homosexuality is a very different ballgame and one the mods are justified in avoiding, imho.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens to Balthazar Furious' thread. Though there was a similar one a while back that wasn't problematic at all, if memory serves.

Edit: Aha! Found it! See, as long as the thread isn't "GUESS WHAT?! I'M GAY AND HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY BOYFRIEND" you shouldn't have any problems. And if anyone is stupid enough to post a thread with a title remotely similar to the example I made up, they deserve to have the thread locked.

Edited by - Codename on 3/1/2005 7:39:16 PM

Sorry wiz, im terrible when it comes to... geting the feeling behind the post.

As i said on the other thread, but so there are no confusions. i aplogize for all stated on these forums and i hereby withdraw myself from this... choas