Still wrong in my opinion, Corsair.
So if I were to take a test on your basis of intelligence, I could get a question about the 7th King of Abyssinia or some other piece I'll have no knowledge of. I'll fail that part of the test but some thicko who happened to read it still scores more highly than me. IQ tests are designed to avoid using prior knowledge for this reason. They tend to rely mostly on a mixture of verbal and non-verbal reasoning, problem-solving etc. All that is needed is the ability to understand the language the test is written in.
An unwillingness to learn about certain subjects doesn't imply a lack of intelligence. I don't have any particular interest in the history of glass-making or the exact workings of a plant's reproductive organs, that doesn't mean I lack intelligence, just enthusiasm for certain subjects. In fact it could be said that intelligence is the cause and a willingness to learn is an effect (not the other way around). If you find it easy to assimilate information you're more likely to be happy to take on more knowledge than average.
Different ways of learning have little to do with intelligence, as long as you're capable of absorbing and using information in one way or another, I don't see how that affects IQ. Some people are taught to read phonetically, others were taught with the strange "look-say" system, it doesn't directly affect anyone's intelligence; phonetics didn't make me suddenly a lot brighter than the rest of my peers.
IQ tests are designed to avoid using prior knowledge for these reasons. They tend to rely mostly on a mixture of verbal and non-verbal reasoning, problem-solving etc. All that is needed is the ability to understand the language the test is written in.

Well, yes, but what I'm saying was in effect that the two are linked, certain subjects have more impact on what I class as "intelligence" than others, ie. knowledge of emotions, can be gained from say... (er...) well it can, and would be useful to know.
Basically, I'm taking intelligence in a very practical sense, in that knowledge can very help in many situations, and I'm thinking if intelligence as purely a combination of practical knowledge and practical use of IQ. Basically someone can have a really high IQ, but it's no use if it's never used, and doesn't have enough knowledge to back it up.

Take linguistic skills, for instance, which are a sizeable part of IQ tests, and also of people's general assumption of intellience, ie. someone good with wotds is more intelligent than someone who isn't (the actual truth in that is, of course very minimal, but what I'm saying is that linguistic skills are often linked with IQ, at least in the minds of people who know little of the subject)- these depend just as much (if not more) on knowledge as on IQ.


Confusing, but wise, words of the Corsair:
"If you give me £10, then you will have £10 less. Or do you?"

As is staed, it is all a matter of sematics; what is knowledge? Dictionary.com defines it as;

---

knowl·edge n.

1. The state or fact of knowing.
2. Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3. The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4. Learning; erudition: teachers of great knowledge.
5. Specific information about something.
6. Carnal knowledge.

---

But is this really what knowledge is? "Knowledge" is specifically tailored to a specific person, and is formed throughout their lives. Such a thing cannot be tested. "Intelligence" can be (theoretically speaking), because it is supposed to be a test of mental capabilities , and "power", rather than upon what we know. We cannot even truly define "intelligence" or "knowledge", using language, so how can we truly understand it? That's my question to you.

Note: I wonder why number six is there? That's something else entirely.


Edited by - esquilax on 5/24/2004 3:35:56 PM

I say a person is intelligent if they have 14+ on their Int score. ::duck::

Bah! Take your D&D stats and get out of sw's thread, you moocher!

If you took a SF look at it, Intelligent Life would be that which thinks, acts and reacts, grows and is capable of voluntary change, comunicates, and reasons.

Perhpas Final, but I don't necessarily agree. Now you're getting into sentience which is something else.

There is a small difference between intelligence and sentience, as my cat -could- be called inteligent, knowing how to escape from nearly any enclosure. (it can. its a feline houdini!) however, most people would call that experience based behaiviour, not intelligence. Sentience seems to be combination of awareness of self, awareness of state (knowing ones and others mental/physical state), knowlege/experience, instinct, language, and awareness of mind (awareness of sepereate minds and sepereate thoughts.)
This comibined makes your basic human. not your intelligent human. intelligence is measured compared to a certain dicipline, like retaining memories and facts, applying theories on real life problems, survival in life itself, etc. (or how much damage you take from magic attacks )

sycho_warrior, you're right. intelligence is purely based on your examiner. its also a reason why i never try to judge my own intelligence, or any other skill i have, cos i could be wrong someday.

and now i must go, as i can hear dad yelling at the cat.

Viator

IMO experience, knowledge and determination are much more valuable commodities than intelligence. I actually don't rate intelligence at all. I know a lot of intelligent people who are miserable failures at life and I know a lot of determined average thinkers who are highly successful.

Well, as far as success goes, what really matters are skill and luck- some people have an IQ that's a negative number and can barely remember what their name is (well OK, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration ), but could still be, say the most brilliant footballer the world has ever seen, or have an odd knack for predicting share prices, and thus become successful (if you gauge success in terms of money, as opposed to spiritual and intellectual fulfilment, like me ).
Then again, some have no IQ, knowledge, or talent and just get lucky.


Confusing, but wise, words of the Corsair:
"If you give me £10, then you will have £10 less. Or do you?"

I define intelligence as being someone who doesn't reply to a thread about intelligence...

...oh I just did....DOH!

What are the differences, compare, contrast and discuss:

1. Smart or smartness
2. Knowledge or knowledgableness
3. Intelligent or intelligence
4. Sentient or sentience
5. Conscious or conscience
6. Genius
7. Aware or awareness
8. Alert or alertness
9. Bright or brightness
10. Intuition or intuitiveness
11. Instinct or instinctiveness

Well, the right hand ones all describe a specific trait, and the left hand ones are adjectives for people who have those traits.


EDIT- except genius, which means very smart, or of high IQ.


Confusing, but wise, words of the Corsair:
"If you give me £10, then you will have £10 less. Or do you?"



Edited by - ~Corsair#01~ on 5/25/2004 11:02:41 AM

LOL

~Cor you got me.

Just having fun, really. If you are intelligent, are you smart? If you are knowledgeable are you aware? Stuff like that.