Yes Virginia, There Really Was a(n) Homeric Troy

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:38 pm by Indy11

Hissarlik / Troy, as Schliemann claimed, pretty much turns out to be THE Troy of the Iliad.

Current digs, now on its 10th year and counting have discovered levels dating back to a period of between 1600BC to 1100BC that provides evidence of a much more massive city than the upper layers. It was crowned with a massive citadel that was unsurpassed anywhere else in Western Turkey or Southeastern Europe in that time period.

The lower city was protected by a large U-shaped moat that was over 6 feet deep and 11 feet wide. The city's foot print covered roughly 75+ acres and a cemetary was adjacent to the city but outside the city walls.

Evidence dating to around 1180 indicates that this great city was sacked. Char marks, some skeletal remains and piles of sling stones were found within the city's precincts. (Levels VI - VIIa)

Linguistic analysis currently holds that Ilios (as pronounced by Homer's contemporaries of around 780BC) is the slurred development of the more ancient pronunciation of "Wilios" for the Troy of the achaioi. This Wilios coincides with Hittite Empire records that refer to treaty negotiations with king of Wilusa , one Alaksandu, and the Hittite King Muwatalli II (ca.1295-1272BC).

Those same records also make note of correspondences (ca. 1267-1237BC) to the king of the Ahhiyawa (Achaioi) by King Hattusili II who mentions that Wilusa was a bone of contention between the Empire and the Achaioi.

While not proved conclusively in Hittite archaeology, it is fairly strongly held that the Ahhiawa are the Achaeans or Mycenean Greeks (Achaioi).

Sorry to bore anyone not interested but who was forced to read this post but I find this stuff really neat.

Edited by - Indy11 on 4/11/2004 7:40:08 PM

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:46 pm by H.Q. Victor

The guy's first name wouldn't happen to be Heinrich, would it?

Michael
"Hezekiah"

Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:35 pm by Jim Groovester

That would give credence to a historical Trojan War, which would make sense, since legends usually arrise from historical events (or so I ignorantly say).

Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:44 am by Esquilax

Interesting Indy. I always assumed that the war was real. Otherwise, how can we explain the sudden disappearance of the Trojans? Not easily.

Jim - I don't know about "usually". Legends varied greatly; some were based upon "real" events, but others were based upon works of fiction or religious beliefs.

Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:56 am by Indy11

No direct evidence of a singular siege war against Troy as the defining moment in Greek history of that time.

Schliemann did not help the cause as he was not accurate in identifying the correct level at Hissarlik although he was right about the site.

Perhaps not earth shaking news but the furor over whether Schliemann was making it up or not took away credibility from the Hissarlik site. Today, the diggers in the area are fairly sure that this IS the site and that there was at least a sack of the City but they are very leery of indicatig whether the siege war described in the Iliad has been confirmed by the physical evidence.

Note the layers Schliemann pointed to yielded significant quantity of Hittite artifacts which, of course and over the years, tended to disprove what he claimed.

@Fd: The one and the same.

Edited by - Indy11 on 4/12/2004 4:56:51 AM

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:12 am by Tawakalna

I've never doubted for a moment since I first read stories of Troy as a kid that it was quite real; take out the gods n stuff like that, and the 1000 ships, and all the Pais/Helen bits, and you have a totally plausible protracted war of a confederation of city-states fighting one very powerful and wealthy city-state.

Troy was rich and powerful because it controlled access to the Black Sea and thus to the Greek colonies of the coasts of Scythia and the Panticapeaum. It is described by Homer as "Priam's city, dripping with gold" I can see that overtime, such a level of control especially if heavy handed would alienate the other Greek states and hamper their trade with their colonies and co-nationals, a situation which usually leads to war.

Schlioemann's work wasn't that original. Others had theorised and become convinced upon the site of Hisarlik as ancient Troy, but couldn't prove it by excavating. Schliemann was able to organise funds and an expedition, and thus garnered the glory by being first, but intellectually he provided nothing.

Wonder if they'll have those man-size shields in the film? y'know, those things that go all around like wheelie bins and have the slots in for viewing? Can't see Brad in one of those...he's Achilles, isn't he? Who's playing all the other bods? I know Orlando is playing Paris (ponce) I never understood why, if he was prince, he was out shepherding?

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:02 am by Eh_Steve

why, if he was prince, he was out shepherding?

If I remember correctly, there was something about him being banished until he did something good or something like that. It was like "you've done nothing wrong, get! Don't come back until you've done something extraordinary!". I'm pretty sure that was how it went.

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:54 am by Indy11

Taw said:

) I never understood why, if he was prince, he was out shepherding?

Reminds me of a dusty old joke, punch line being: That's the sheriff's girl!

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:48 am by Tawakalna

don't know that one, Ed; youre going to have to tell me.

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:57 am by Indy11

Guy gets lost in the old West, wanders around and almost starves to death before he tumbles upon a tiny little town. He ends up at the bar and looks around. All men, no women.

He decides to stick around for a month, earn some money and buy a new horse and then move along. Two weeks into his stay, he gets horny and he asks around what the others did when the urge hit them. They tell him about this flock of sheep outside of town.

He goes and comes back to the bar looking pretty mellowed out. Bartender asks him confidentially how it went. The guy says it was a little leery at first but then he saw this one sheep that was, well kind of cute, had a little pink nose, etc., and so he thought, what the heck.

Upon hearing the description, the bartender gasped and said........

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:59 am by H.Q. Victor

@Indy, would you believe I first read about this in 1985? It was mentioned in a Star Trek Book called "Uhura's Song". Had not seen or heard of it since. Amazing.

Michael
"Hezekiah"

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:13 am by -------

I love history. Particularly military history, because I was with the military for about a year and a half before I dropped out. I love the Iliad and its follow-up, the Odyssey. True classics. The Trojan War started because some guy(I forget his name, remind me please)kidnapped Helen of Troy.

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb!"

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:44 am by Tawakalna

Paris. He was promised the most beautiful woman in the world as a reward for judging Aphrodite top totty in a competition between the 3 top goddesses, Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite (all a bit silly that but I'm sure it has some esoteric neo-platonic meaning other than the obvious morality tale) so when he bumped into her at some diplomatic function in Mycenae? he was smitten, so was she, and off they elope to Troy. Btw she's already married, the dorty sloot.

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:48 am by Indy11

Yeah. To me the point was that it was a silly contest, who would have thought Hera or Athena more beutiful than Aprhodite? I mean Hera? Harridan of the Gods? And Athena, she who really wasn't interested?

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:25 am by ~Corsair#01~

This was on Horizon. Apparently, ,the city EXISTED, and the battle happened, but therte was no trojan horse, it was just another battle.

Corsair#01takes no responsiblity for any Spam created or endorsed by Corsair#01 Postings Limited.
SMILIES UNITE!

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