this is my world; it goes round and round and round
The wolfy types like a cow
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Black hole trears a star apart
This is where you can discuss your homework, family, just about anything, make strange sounds and otherwise discuss things which are really not related to the Lancer-series. Yes that means you can discuss other games.
Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:38 am
Wolfy said:
The term I've seen used is "multiverse." And the way it has been described,
there aren't any "big open spaces" which is a more naturall way to look at it.
Interstingly, and I am pretty ignorant of the religio-philosophical roots of things, it looks like the ancient Hindu and Chinese looked at our "world" in these terms.
The Hindu description seems to be very similar to what the theorists think they are describing in String Theory: The multiverse is like an infinite mass of bubbles (suds) where each bubble is a universe but each bubble has a very hard shell. The difference with String Theory is that instead of bubbles, they are gigantic strings or "branes" which, cross-sectionally might look like bubbles if one can even cross-sectionally look at these branes, that is. 
Here's something that gets you started. Frankly, much of this String Theory stuff just bounces off my skull and ricochets around the room.
Edited by - Indy11 on 2/20/2004 11:39:05 AM
so what shall we call the big open space that holds these so called "parallel universes"?
The term I've seen used is "multiverse." And the way it has been described,
there aren't any "big open spaces" which is a more naturall way to look at it.
Interstingly, and I am pretty ignorant of the religio-philosophical roots of things, it looks like the ancient Hindu and Chinese looked at our "world" in these terms.
The Hindu description seems to be very similar to what the theorists think they are describing in String Theory: The multiverse is like an infinite mass of bubbles (suds) where each bubble is a universe but each bubble has a very hard shell. The difference with String Theory is that instead of bubbles, they are gigantic strings or "branes" which, cross-sectionally might look like bubbles if one can even cross-sectionally look at these branes, that is.
Here's something that gets you started. Frankly, much of this String Theory stuff just bounces off my skull and ricochets around the room.
Edited by - Indy11 on 2/20/2004 11:39:05 AM
Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:00 pm
hehe, a few things in here struck a chord with me, so i thought i might rant a bit. in now way are these supposed to seem like arguments or attacks at other members, i'm just stating a few points from the way i see things
1) it is my belief that the universe will continue to expand without end, eventually leading to "The Big Freeze", where everything is so spread out in the universe that the effective ambiant temperature is Absolute Zero and there are no more sources of energy anywhere, including black holes. (as the black holes change matter into x-rays, they eventually will use themselves up...or something...). this will be the effective end of the universe...
2) from what i've been taught, parallel universes can never intersect. two universes don't exist in the same "world", they are totally seperate with absolutly no relation to each other at all...no spatial relation (one universe is not "to the left of" another universe, etc), no temporal relation (if its 2004 here, there could be another universe where there is no time at all, or a totally different concept of time), and no causal relation (what happens in on has no effect on the other)....
There is no way to get from one universe to another
There is no way for two universes to come in contact with each other
Even if two universes did overlap, they wouldn't destroy each other (why would they??? it doesn't make sence)
i can't really explain it better than that, since it took my philosophy professor about 4 weeks to explain it to me...i hope you get what i'm trying to say
fyi, I laughed out loud at Discovery's opening statement "As we all know there are parallel universes". since when does everyone know this? i had no idea this was common knowledge, or that it had in any way been proven...
3) "As I understand it, because time and space are the same thing" - Esquilax
WHAT??? since when are time and space the same thing? could you maybe phrase that differently? i think you mean to say that they are related, but i'm just making sure. (since i don't believe the universe will contract, i absolutly don't believe time will run backwards, but i just want to make sure i understand your point)
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
1) it is my belief that the universe will continue to expand without end, eventually leading to "The Big Freeze", where everything is so spread out in the universe that the effective ambiant temperature is Absolute Zero and there are no more sources of energy anywhere, including black holes. (as the black holes change matter into x-rays, they eventually will use themselves up...or something...). this will be the effective end of the universe...
2) from what i've been taught, parallel universes can never intersect. two universes don't exist in the same "world", they are totally seperate with absolutly no relation to each other at all...no spatial relation (one universe is not "to the left of" another universe, etc), no temporal relation (if its 2004 here, there could be another universe where there is no time at all, or a totally different concept of time), and no causal relation (what happens in on has no effect on the other)....
There is no way to get from one universe to another
There is no way for two universes to come in contact with each other
Even if two universes did overlap, they wouldn't destroy each other (why would they??? it doesn't make sence)
i can't really explain it better than that, since it took my philosophy professor about 4 weeks to explain it to me...i hope you get what i'm trying to say
fyi, I laughed out loud at Discovery's opening statement "As we all know there are parallel universes". since when does everyone know this? i had no idea this was common knowledge, or that it had in any way been proven...
3) "As I understand it, because time and space are the same thing" - Esquilax
WHAT??? since when are time and space the same thing? could you maybe phrase that differently? i think you mean to say that they are related, but i'm just making sure. (since i don't believe the universe will contract, i absolutly don't believe time will run backwards, but i just want to make sure i understand your point)
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:08 am
it is my belief that the universe will continue to expand without end
That's quite interesting, why do you think this?
from what i've been taught
What have you been taught exactly?
"As we all know there are parallel universes". since when does everyone know this?
I imagine the whole program was probably aimed at anyone interested in that sort of thing anyway, but I see your point that not everyone may take the theory of alternate universes at face value (if at all)
"As I understand it, because time and space are the same thing"
I have no idea why I quoted this, I think I was thinking about how time is a dimension but space was absence of matter in the same way black is absence of light.
I'm not evil, just morally challenged
Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:28 pm
well, its just a theory i have about the universe, based on some books i've read written by a physicist (the Manifold series by Stephan Baxter....amazing books)
maybe it will collapse after the Big Freeze, but by then there will be nothing left in it anyway, so it won't really matter....
i took a course in Metaphysics this past semester, and one of the units was on multiple worlds and the like. purely philisophical (not scientific discussions at all...) but still quite enjoyable. the theory we focused on was that mutiple universes are totally independent of one another and cannot overlap/intersect/interact etc with each other in any way, shape or form.
there is another theory about Multiple Worlds, in which they could be connected that seemed interesting, but we didn't talk about it, so i can't really say anything meaningfull about it. maybe i should read up on that sometime and get back to you...
what you have to say about time being a dimention is true, but it's not a dimention of space...it's just a dimention, ie there are three spatial dimentions (X,Y,Z axis) and one temporal dimention
again. i don't want to argue about any of this, and i'll gladly consider other theories if they sound plausible
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Edited by - kyp durron on 2/21/2004 3:31:54 PM
maybe it will collapse after the Big Freeze, but by then there will be nothing left in it anyway, so it won't really matter....
i took a course in Metaphysics this past semester, and one of the units was on multiple worlds and the like. purely philisophical (not scientific discussions at all...) but still quite enjoyable. the theory we focused on was that mutiple universes are totally independent of one another and cannot overlap/intersect/interact etc with each other in any way, shape or form.
there is another theory about Multiple Worlds, in which they could be connected that seemed interesting, but we didn't talk about it, so i can't really say anything meaningfull about it. maybe i should read up on that sometime and get back to you...
what you have to say about time being a dimention is true, but it's not a dimention of space...it's just a dimention, ie there are three spatial dimentions (X,Y,Z axis) and one temporal dimention
again. i don't want to argue about any of this, and i'll gladly consider other theories if they sound plausible
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Edited by - kyp durron on 2/21/2004 3:31:54 PM
Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:42 pm
Big Freeze = universe keeps expanding forever, and all the stars burn out and all the black holes decompose until there's pretty much no matter left in the universe, and the ambiant temperature of space is close to Absolute Zero
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:58 pm
this is the currant topic in pysics class,
the class theory is:
there was the big bang:
matter flung outward from the center of the universe:
matter forms together while still carrying the energy
from the explosion:
Gagillions of years later the matter that was formed runs
out of energy from the explosion, and momentarily stops:
the gravitational pull of the matter gets stronger than the
froce that is "flinging" it outwards:
the matter collapses in on itself, thus forming a
super-black hole in the center, that is so large that it
encompases enough mass the bend the fabric of space
time so much that it consumes itself:
the black holes strength is so large that it rips its own
event horizon (the ball of mass in the "middle" )
apart, so forcefully that it explodes once again as a
"big bang".
well there you go thats my theory
"now i will put my burning hands in the fridge"
BTW kyp, once ther is no more energy, there will
be just matter, hence it's own gravitational pull will
cause it to contract. we even did an experiment in a vacuum
jar, proved that if all the energy was lost it would contract
The Angel of Darkness
Edited by - Aod on 2/21/2004 4:59:54 PM
Edited by - Aod on 2/21/2004 5:17:15 PM
the class theory is:
there was the big bang:
matter flung outward from the center of the universe:
matter forms together while still carrying the energy
from the explosion:
Gagillions of years later the matter that was formed runs
out of energy from the explosion, and momentarily stops:
the gravitational pull of the matter gets stronger than the
froce that is "flinging" it outwards:
the matter collapses in on itself, thus forming a
super-black hole in the center, that is so large that it
encompases enough mass the bend the fabric of space
time so much that it consumes itself:
the black holes strength is so large that it rips its own
event horizon (the ball of mass in the "middle" )
apart, so forcefully that it explodes once again as a
"big bang".
well there you go thats my theory
"now i will put my burning hands in the fridge"
BTW kyp, once ther is no more energy, there will
be just matter, hence it's own gravitational pull will
cause it to contract. we even did an experiment in a vacuum
jar, proved that if all the energy was lost it would contract
The Angel of Darkness
Edited by - Aod on 2/21/2004 4:59:54 PM
Edited by - Aod on 2/21/2004 5:17:15 PM
Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:23 pm
i like what indy sai';
and this proses isn't slowing down, it's accelerating more and more, we fly away from the centre (where this maybe began)...
the astronomers thought we where sloing down... u know; big bang, top speed making stars/planets, expands... then slow down to speed 0 off everything and then accelerate to point centre... where everything blow togheter and make a new big bang... (uhmm... see it as magnetism)
if this is a way off magnetism, their must be a point off where the things will not move and will trac eachother, but maybe in this way also a point where their is nothing and a point where the things push eachother further and further from eachother (and no, it doesn't have to do with + by + and - by - this time)
if it is what i say, then i wonder what happends when the speed is at the speed off light. co'z then what is behind will no changes anymore, and what is in front off u will go almost 2ce as fast. some experts say that when something enter the speed off light it would disapear in time...
_________________
Spamius Threadius
But astronomers have been observing that rather than slowing down or contracting, the universe that we can see and measure is expanding. Galaxies are flying away from each other, not toward.
and this proses isn't slowing down, it's accelerating more and more, we fly away from the centre (where this maybe began)...
the astronomers thought we where sloing down... u know; big bang, top speed making stars/planets, expands... then slow down to speed 0 off everything and then accelerate to point centre... where everything blow togheter and make a new big bang... (uhmm... see it as magnetism)
if this is a way off magnetism, their must be a point off where the things will not move and will trac eachother, but maybe in this way also a point where their is nothing and a point where the things push eachother further and further from eachother (and no, it doesn't have to do with + by + and - by - this time)
if it is what i say, then i wonder what happends when the speed is at the speed off light. co'z then what is behind will no changes anymore, and what is in front off u will go almost 2ce as fast. some experts say that when something enter the speed off light it would disapear in time...
_________________
Spamius Threadius
Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:12 am
Matter always has, and always will, have energy, whether is is exazillions of joules of heat, or the slight one picometre movement of an atom every billion years, it is theoretically and practically impossible to exhaust all of the ambient energy in the universe.
Ok, say you have a ball aabout 5 metres across, this represents the universe, inside you have 50000 or so millimetre-wide balls, that represent the galaxy, that have been superheated to over 80000K, the rest is liquid nitrogen cooled to 80 or so K.
Eventually, provided that ball has a specific heat of 0 (theoretical, impossible, only way to do this is with an anti-graviton barrier), allowing the objects to not leak heat to the outside of the barrier, they will come to an eventual temperature, and sit there, until an unbalanced heat force in acted from the outside. At present, our universe in in an "unbalanced", heat state, where energy is all bunched up into clumps, in this "ambient" state, matter throughout the universe is at a constant unchanging temperature.
Anyway, this inst gonna happen for another 20 trillion trillion trillion years! we should be more worried about if protons start decaying! then there wont be any practical matter left to hold heat!
Ok, say you have a ball aabout 5 metres across, this represents the universe, inside you have 50000 or so millimetre-wide balls, that represent the galaxy, that have been superheated to over 80000K, the rest is liquid nitrogen cooled to 80 or so K.
Eventually, provided that ball has a specific heat of 0 (theoretical, impossible, only way to do this is with an anti-graviton barrier), allowing the objects to not leak heat to the outside of the barrier, they will come to an eventual temperature, and sit there, until an unbalanced heat force in acted from the outside. At present, our universe in in an "unbalanced", heat state, where energy is all bunched up into clumps, in this "ambient" state, matter throughout the universe is at a constant unchanging temperature.
Anyway, this inst gonna happen for another 20 trillion trillion trillion years! we should be more worried about if protons start decaying! then there wont be any practical matter left to hold heat!
Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:52 am
makes sence....
too bad none of us will be around to find out what actually does happen
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
too bad none of us will be around to find out what actually does happen
Kyp
The other day, in study hall, i farted really loud, you know...so the guys would laugh...and i swear it was so hanus that Susie Johnson almost ralphed up her salsbury steak.
it was freakin sweet...
Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:10 am
Ok, with dark Matter, I developed this theory, doesn't make total sense but its possible.
Dark Matter, coudl, concievably, have the atoms spinning the OPPOSITE direction of matter (Or was it electrons? anyways,) Therefore, it is quite concievable that this planet Earth is made of Matter and Dark Matter, in theory, two planets occupying the same spot in exsistance but non-exsistant to each other. Now, I don't know ifg this is fact or fiction, but supposedly a INVISIBLE metor hit Siberian Forests in early 1900's, aorund 1908. Trees were flattened fro miles. I think that this metor was infact a small metor surrounded by Dark Matter, And because of the Dark Matter, even thoguh it is non-exsistant, it is possible that it was neither, this metor,and was simply "Grey Matter", or no revoultions in its electrons or whatever. This opens up possibilties that there is three planets here, but I won't go there today. On to the next subject:
The Big Crunch
It's perfectly plausible with modern theory. After the universe expands as much as it can, it stops expandign and starts cotnracting, which means tiem would start runnnig backwards. This is a wodnerous thing. Just imagine:
"Three brought to life in bank raid"
A man armed with a sawed off shotgun sucked bullets out of two security guards and a teller in a South London bank tomorrow. The man then forced 10,000 Pounds into the terrifed tellers hands and demanded it be palced in the banks vaults. The man,George Ellis, compelted a five year sentence for the crime two years ago.
War would be a wodnerous thing. Imagine WWII in reverse:
Millions would be brought to life. Hitler would retreat accorss Europe, liberate France and Poland, disband the Third Rhiech and bog off back to Austria!
"Xenos, the breakfast of champions" -YowuLing
Dark Matter, coudl, concievably, have the atoms spinning the OPPOSITE direction of matter (Or was it electrons? anyways,) Therefore, it is quite concievable that this planet Earth is made of Matter and Dark Matter, in theory, two planets occupying the same spot in exsistance but non-exsistant to each other. Now, I don't know ifg this is fact or fiction, but supposedly a INVISIBLE metor hit Siberian Forests in early 1900's, aorund 1908. Trees were flattened fro miles. I think that this metor was infact a small metor surrounded by Dark Matter, And because of the Dark Matter, even thoguh it is non-exsistant, it is possible that it was neither, this metor,and was simply "Grey Matter", or no revoultions in its electrons or whatever. This opens up possibilties that there is three planets here, but I won't go there today. On to the next subject:
The Big Crunch
It's perfectly plausible with modern theory. After the universe expands as much as it can, it stops expandign and starts cotnracting, which means tiem would start runnnig backwards. This is a wodnerous thing. Just imagine:
"Three brought to life in bank raid"
A man armed with a sawed off shotgun sucked bullets out of two security guards and a teller in a South London bank tomorrow. The man then forced 10,000 Pounds into the terrifed tellers hands and demanded it be palced in the banks vaults. The man,George Ellis, compelted a five year sentence for the crime two years ago.
War would be a wodnerous thing. Imagine WWII in reverse:
Millions would be brought to life. Hitler would retreat accorss Europe, liberate France and Poland, disband the Third Rhiech and bog off back to Austria!
"Xenos, the breakfast of champions" -YowuLing