i read somewhere once that in order to make sure enough genetic diversity u need a minimum population of 50,000.

I read books on that, well kinda. It was about Grendels, not sure about the title and writer. Anyone know that? There is a lot in there.

But do you think that if they're almost completely cut of from Earth they would go by Earth rules?
The colony would evolve into a totally new community with its own laws and "rituals" (Like holiday's) under the influance of a totally new environment.

Money would be a problem I think. Right now two countries close to eachother can have two totaly different economic systems and money value. How do you think two planets lightyears away from eachother can have an integrated economy?

That rules out banks and brings the community back to oldfashion trading.
Sure enough there are some rare elements on that planet wich can be shipped back with that once-in-5-years transport to "Pay" for the supplies, whatever they are.

Anyway, about defense and stuff. That would be secondairy, especially from and unlikely alien invasion.

First goal would be settlement: Build a shelter wich provides cover from wether and possible wild animals. Later build a perimiter to provide better cover from outside attacks, but that's dependant on the presence of threats.

Second goal would be food: First they would have to rely an transported food. Lets hope it's still fresh after such a long trip but very soon they must find or create a reliable scource of food either through a farm, but if that's not possible, or go out and harvest from bushes and hunt for animals.

Third would be medical facilities: They would have the use of shipped medicines and equipment, but they will have to study the environment to see if they can use anything to replace the decreasing recourses.

After this is achieved they can put there minds to transportations (roads), explorations and educations and industry.

As for brought along suplies: Medical suplies, Food (if at all possible), building materials, weapons, transportation (cars, boats and stuff).

I'm not sure on how much people should come along, but 50,000 seems ok. Devided into a few colony-ships.

Btw, do you know the game Alpha Centauri? This reminds me a bit about it.

It's better to chase a rabbit then to catch a hare...

Edited by - Nickless: Daft Remarks on 06-12-2003 15:22:18

i always thought that if you found a terraformable planet, the most obvious thing to do would be to nuke the **** out of it for about a year. throwing shagloads of dust into the atmosphere and creating "nuclear winter" in essence you'd create a basic atmosphere. Over the 100-200 years the radiation would piss off and you'd be cookin' with gas. Although thats probably VERY flawed.

plants though, thats what you need. ALOT of them. If you think about it, if its a totally barron planet, i.e. if theres nothing there WHATSOEVER then you could just introduce all the best plants from earth and set them up on this other planet. would create oxygen in no time, especially if theyve been genetically modified

i guess weve never had to make an atmosphere before so theres no sure fire way of creating one.

As for people, you'd need alot of people. and it would be a prudent idea to make sure only the fittest and healthyest are sent out there. I know its a bit crude but elliminating genetic diseases by just NOT letting those with a family history of certain medical problems start the colony is a smart idea.

-ooh, its also a good idea to pick a planet where the gravity is nigh on identical to earths. The reason for that is that if theres a significant change on the body between both planets (i.e. the 2nd planet has a harsher gravity) then the colonists are going to evolve stronger muscles and skeletons to cope with the increased stresses on the body. This will, in time, create an offshoot human race, whose overall body system is different, who are phsically stonger than the earthlings. AND, as we all know, tollerance for anyone not like ourselves always leads to all out war with them, so we can expect intergalactic space battles within a couple of hundred years of colonisation. I suppose the ultimate solution would be the invention of "artificial gravity" and equipt the space-ships with that, so that unless your ON the planet, your experiencing earthlike gravity and your body wont adapt as fast, maybe not at all. In any respect, its probably a good idea to just pick a planet with Earths gravity


"it has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime, what better place than here, what better time than now"

Edited by - Arcon on 06-12-2003 17:49:59

unf while ur principle of warming the place up is fine, nukes is a bad idea, the decay rate of many radioactive isotopes is too slow (like 1/4 million yrs for plutonium) greenhouse gases would be better.

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-ooh, its also a good idea to pick a planet where the gravity is nigh on identical to earths. The reason for that is that if theres a significant change on the body between both planets (i.e. the 2nd planet has a harsher gravity) then the colonists are going to evolve stronger muscles and skeletons to cope with the increased stresses on the body. This will, in time, create an offshoot human race, whose overall body system is different, who are phsically stonger than the earthlings. AND, as we all know, tollerance for anyone not like ourselves always leads to all out war with them, so we can expect intergalactic space battles within a couple of hundred years of colonisation. I suppose the ultimate solution would be the invention of "artificial gravity" and equipt the space-ships with that, so that unless your ON the planet, your experiencing earthlike gravity and your body wont adapt as fast, maybe not at all. In any respect, its probably a good idea to just pick a planet with Earths gravity

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I've always wondered about that evolving thing. Can the adaptive processes involved respond that quickly so that a sufficient population would survive the heavier gravity in sufficient numbers to promote the evolution? I think the relative gravities would have be much closer so that if there is a difference, that difference is in mere fractions of 1g. I don't know that if a planet were 2g, the population would survive many generations. Your respiratory system and cardiovascular need to be able to cope as originally designed. At 2g, I wonder whether a person who catches pneumonia would survive.

Edited by - Indy11 on 06-12-2003 20:17:50

FF, this is Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

Heard of it, but never knew what it was about. At all.

or to put it in other words

"I have never played that game... did I say game, Define Game"



Whoops, almost forgot my contribution to the general topic,

I read something about Algae to revert certain gasses into livable air, maybe that would work, and what exactly is technology? the instant you launch that colony ship it is on it's own, so it will generate its own technology
it's just up to the conditions that present themselves.

As for Archies contribution, Evolution is inevitable, it is not the actual earth, conditions are different there, and inter-colonial wars, look at the history of this world, every single colony on this planet alone generated somekind of war to get free, so that war would be inevitable,

As for colonist people that have to be on the planet, it's better not to send people at all, it's better to send androids with a certain basic mission structure
(so they won't get rebellious and stuff, you know the drill). to make sure that the atmosphere gets breathable and after a 100 years or so you can start to send humans to the planet, also make sure that the instant the atmosphere is breathable, the Robots will self-destruct to prevent any further harm.
(it's also a decent way to makwe sure they can be re-activated from scratch to serve other purposes)

As for Archies Idea to send perfectly healthy humans, I agree, but it would get other diseases that are not known (remember the first law of nature? Nature makes sure that there will ALLWAYS be a Balance, NO EXCEPTION).



Edited by - Locutus on 07-12-2003 00:38:02

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look at the histiry of this world,

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I see it every day

@Taw: Yeah, that's where I got my ideas from Good game btw

It's better to chase a rabbit then to catch a hare...

ooooh yes taw i was also just thinking alpha centari
i have a copy = from a friend
Decent but hard game

Thats capitol Angel to you

Please stay on-topic!
This is one of the rare intelligent topics so keep it alive!

-- The Lancersreactor: where the screenshots are never blurry, and the spammers get publically kicked around.

The Lancersreactor FAQ
The use of signatures

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every single colony on this planet alone generated somekind of war to get free, so that war would be inevitable

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I find myself disagreeing with this.

In modern times we as a civilization are starting to realize and avoid certain mistakes we made in the past. For example: slavery is shot on sight, figuratively speaking, and the "coalition" forces are attempting to get out of the various countries they've taken over lately rather than dig themselves in.

-off topic- the reason imo we can't get out of Iraq... oops. impending political content.

-on topic- I think that the same would be true of this colony. We, as a world, would recognize thier right and will to govern themselves, as is stated in one way or another in our own constitutions. The only reason we might act otherwise is if we wanted the mineral wealth of the colony planet, in wich case I bet we'd be very nice to the colonists .

The colony might even be set up as a military society, a giant base of sorts. If it were set up to allow the people stationed there to return home I bet some would, but others would choose to stay, and the children born there would be raised there etc. So although it couldn't stay that way forever it would keep it's resources under tight controll untill it was large enough to conduct comerce with the mother planet.

The requisite for this is communication. Historicly, NO society was larger than a speedy communication network. Rome was doing pretty good, even with thier advanced road system. So, if it takes messages months or years, the colony is basicly on its own form the offset and wars over xenophobia are much more likely.

The only hope would be for the colony founders to plan for a long wait before contact with earth was re-established. Even than tho, if we (earth) tried to assert our will over these colonies it would most likely be disasterous.

In conclusion/summation, I think war could easaly be avoided as long as the colony were allowed to develop a buisness relationship with the mother world once it was well settled rather than a colonial relationship.

/end finger torture

23 individuals is ideal to start a new human population. Namely 16 females, 7 males

Been watching The Matrix too much eh?

Only thing with that is that they can save people from the Matrix and add new blood to there gene pool.

However, I would agree that there should be more women then Men. Women are the lifeblood of a race, men are just the tools to childbearing.

Life: No one gets out alive.



Edited by - RILMS on 08-12-2003 16:24:06