They have removed the original FL ships

To go 3k with a capital ship hit Z in free flight. Also to not hold increase throttle down when you press z. Nothing happens if you do.

Well considering we adding over 50 new ships, we needed room to be able to sell them all so we have to remove all the old ones. We already can't sell the ships in all the sectors because there isn't enough room.

Hmm. I did like a lot of the models. It seems odd to play Freelancer without them. Instead of repeating the same models in every region, couldn't you have kept the regional ships? For instance, in the original game, you didn't have the Rhino for sale in Bretonia space, but in your mod you seem to have the Millenium Falcon for sale somewhere in each region.

Also, sorry to say, some of the new models just don't belong in a game as pretty as Freelancer. While some of the original ships looked a little hokey with their resemblance to insects and animals, they all had more style than a space-going 18-wheeler with "FedEx" slapped on it's doors.

When I originally read that you had added over fifty new ships, I thought that sounded great, but now that I find out you removed thirty ot the existing ones, it's more like you "added an 11 to your amplifier."

I think this is something significant and should be added to your readme and any news releases. People are doing a player wipe of their servers for this mod, afterall. They should know, in advance, what they'll be losing as well as what they're getting. A lot of players enjoy their Titans and Eagles and couldn't care less about B5 wannabe's that want to fly a Shadow Cruiser.

Dragon:

I appreciate the feedback, but there are somethings you have to realize.

I don't understand your math. You say 11 new ships? That 50 was in ADDITION to the old ships. If we put the old ships up for sale then that would be ov er 80 ships and that would mean I would have to rebalance over 30 more ships to make sure everyone was on the same page because you know people would scream that their "eagle" doesnt have the same manuverability or firepower as the other heavy fighters.

Also I have had people say the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you have. Many people have said they love the new ships and disliked the old ones.

There are going to be unhappy people no matter WHAT I do.

As for your comment about the readme I know for a FACT that I document my mods better then anyone else here. If you disagree, prove it.

I DO put in what people are getting. If I were to repeat what was lost then I would have the name the exact OPPOSITE of what the changes are. A little redundant don't you think.

I will see about adding the old ships but it's going to take time. That also means certain ships won't be available in certain systems.

I can hear the screams of all the lazy people now..."WHY don't you have ALL the ships in each place!!"

All I can say is if you don't like the new ships don't fly them. I'm not about to take them out because a couple people complain about them. I have to go with what the majority wants. I WILL see about adding the old ones however.


Reynen Starfyre
Project Leader: Starfyre Studios
Freelancer: The Next Generation

Edited by - Reynen on 06-07-2003 03:16:40

Hey guys,

Regarding Ship Vendors and their locations...... I was wondering if there was any reason you needed to sell all the ships in all sectors? After all, most of the ships in Next Gen Mod fall into groups based on the universe they originated in. Star Wars, Babylon 5, etc. Making different groups of ships belong to different sectors of the FL universe would solve any problems adding, not only the original FL ships, but many others in the future. And with the Hyperspace Network now in place it wouldn't pose a big problem for players to take a short trip to find that one ship they really want.

Now, I also have a bolder suggestion based on the above proposal. And if anything I am about to rattle off is simply not possible, well ok then. But I thought I would at least share my thoughts and ideas with you guys.

Taking it all a few steps further, imagine if not only certain groups of ships were affiliated with certain sectors (Liberty, Kusari, etc), but if these sectors also had opposing outlooks, or were even at war. Shadows, The Empire, The Rebels, EarthForce, etc, opposing or battling against each other. With players, through their reputation, being limited to being friendly with only one side of these conflicts at any given moment. That way people could choose who to align with, based not only on their desire to purchase and fly a certain ship sold only to friends of the given sector, but also on their desire to align with a certain moral/immoral, ethical/unethical, good/evil society. This would also lead to great PvP potential, quite similar to clan wars which already occur on some FL servers. Players would have a driving reason to form sides, have large scale battles, and go on strike/covert missions to wipe out enemy bases in hostile systems. Even going so far as to have only a certain range of weapons available in different sectors. Sure, they could still cover all variations within a single group, but that way StealthBlades, for example, could only be purchased by people who have friendly reputation with the allies of The Empire.

Anyways, I have little knowledge of just how much of the reputation system is adjustable, or if any of the above is even plausable within the limits of the Freelancer code. I am simply trying to offer broad ideas relating to possible future paths your wonderful Mod could take. I could write another page or two on variations of the above idea, but you're all smart cookies and can easily see where I am going with this concept.

Regardless of the plausability and/or desire level of this concept, thanks for taking the time to read and consider it. I am already over the moon with the current Next Gen Mod as is. I guess while I was up there I noticed all the stars were a little closer and decided to reach for them.

Thanks again for all your effort to date,

Tarrax

Sorry about the confusion of my numbers, Reynen. The "11" I was talking about was a joke stolen from the movie "This is Spinal Tap." It's a documentary spoof about a rock band that's living the life of drugs and rock and roll. They want to be louder than any other band out there, so they come up with a novel idea: they have all their amplifiers custom made with dials that go up to 11 instead of 10. They're the same amplifiers as anyone elses, but their's crank up to 11, dude! Eh, maybe you have to see the movie.

I'm one of those people who really likes all of the ships you've added. Coming from the Rebalance Mod, it's nice to see so many of the ships carried over. I only think it's a shame that they come at the cost of the original ships. I myself was dissapointed by it, and I fear that others will be too - and not just on my server.

I'll tell you why; and I think it goes a bit towards what Tarrax was saying as well. While all the new ships are nice, most of them come from a different storyline: Star Wars, Babylon 5, Aliens, Freespace, etc. Seeing them used outside of their original context just seems to...lack something. The situation is made worse when they're jumbled together in ways that are opposite their original use - or when they're renamed, or otherwise altered, to fit into the Freelancer Universe. Calling a Y-Wing a Shadow Fighter doesn't fool anybody.

What you get is a lot of ships that aren't really the ships that people are looking for, used how they're not really supposed to be used. It may leave players dissapointed . The Freelancer ships bridge that gap. They are custom made for this universe. Anyone who plays this mod will have played the original first and have that connection. By leaving them in the mod, you allow players the opportunity to choose a ship that feels right for the game if they don't like the crossover ships.

The whole concept is about feelings and emotions while playing the game. It's hard to quantify or define, but it's an integral part of game play. Anyway, I hate trying to tell you, or anyone, how to run their mod. It's yours to do what you want with it; we're just picking at the crumbs. Personally, however, I'd make certain ships buyable only from certain factions, and put the original ships back into the mix. It makes people work for faction. Faction is an integral part of the game, and another money sink to help stimulate the economy.

Something else I noticed, you might want to take a closer look at your changes to the ships of the major powers. Michael Dan did it in his Rebalance mod and got a lot of negative feedback, such that he changed them back to their original make-up. Like I said, everyone plays the default game, and that becomes foundation material. "What's a Bretonia navy without it's Crusaders?"

Well, that's my thoughts. Take what you like, toss the rest.

Edited by - Ether Dragon on 06-07-2003 06:09:57

i know this wouldnt be too hard but could u put the small and large trasport in cos i never flew one b4 its not the train its the transport tat looks like sum1s ribs plz could u add this ship in ur next version
SCRUFF BUFF

Tarrax:

That's not a bad idea but we would have to redesign the entire expansion. You can't simply make one faction hate each other without causing major rammifications.

Example: Some patrols use shadow ships and starfurys in the same group. Now make them oppising factions. You now have patrols fighting themselves.

Also there is NO telling what that would do the SP game.

We are looking into faction and clan wars however, that should interest you

--------------------------------------------------------

Ether:

Thanks for the feedback and I understand what we are saying. All the OLD ships are still in the game and used in their home systems, crusaders for bretonia for example.

I would just have to edit each one to put them in line with the other ships and them find someonewhere to sell them.

We will add them in, but it;s going to take some time

--------------------------------------------------------

Scruff:

There are already enough freighters, but we will think about it. It won't go in the next patch though there are too much other stuff that needs to be done.

Reynen Starfyre
Project Leader: Starfyre Studios
Freelancer: The Next Generation

Just to pose a hypothetical: is it necessary to rebalance the original ships? What would happen if they were put into the mix as is? Perhaps they wouldn't be as powerful as the newer ships, but so what? Is the Defender heavy fighter as powerful as the Falcon heavy fighter? Doesn't the Valkyrie light fighter out perform many heavy fighters? As long as the price reflects their potential, what does it matter? They can be the economy craft of the galaxy; a step up from the starting ship, and step towards the uber ships.

Anybody who has a favorite ship isn't necessarily going to want to see it modified, as it wouldn't be the same ship they fell in love with. As a bonus, it saves you the extra work.

isnt the valk a heavy fighter? or did you mean banshee? also, since you have powerplants that go in any ship, and the original ships were a little more maneuverable, you could just leave them the same right?

the idea of factions against each other is good idea, u could just change the makeup of the squads to include ships from the faction only. Also u could put more systems in to accomodate the old ships or put the new ones there.

Would it be possible to make the new ships just a bit more mobile? For instance the millenium falcon hardly moves at all comparing it to the original 'falcon.