I don't know and I have not seen the look of that kind of encounter that you have said on the bottom but I have seen these permutations

Permutations affect the chance of each encounter that spawns, if there are two permutation counts, that means there are two encounter details in the ini file that is there. If there is just one type of encounter, a permutation count is not needed.

So I am sure numbers 0, 3 mean 0 to 3 chance in spawning and 1, 4 is a 1 to 4 chance in spawning as well

Umm, thanks, but how this chance in spawning will look like in the game?

I've done permutation 11, 14 for 1 of the encounters and never seen it happened after this.
???? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ?

If that is the case then it could mean that the less the numbers the more the encounter is likely to be used?

I haven't been so sure now, I thought I understood it quite a bit

I don't think 11 to 14 is going to be pleasant, try making it 1, 4. Then make the other ones 0, 3

Zero should be none but as long as you have 3 next to it your good.

I don't know, it's all jammed in my head but I am sure that a number up to 11 makes the encounter almost completely ignored by the game, I am sure the less the number the more the chance to spawn, but just don't mark it less that 1.

Experiment with it, there is more information to download. It's called 'Trying to understand encounters.pdf' that should give you more fluent explanations

I've read this .pdf by Buck Danny, but didn't find answers.

It's written there that the more the 2nd permutation parameter, the more likely this encounter will occur.

Nothing more I found there about permutation.

I've seen permutation parameters changed in some mods( 88 flak for example), maybe those who did the mods know the exact answer?

Still I will try to experiment...

Maybe it determines sequence of ships appearing in encounter?...but not sure.
I don't think Buck Danny is wrong.

If you have multiple [EncounterFormation sections in your encounter ini file, the permutations give the relative odds of those formations being chosen when that encounter is generated. For example, let's say you have three EncounterFormation sections in an encounter file; you want the first formation to appear 80% of the time, the second to appear 15% of the time, and the last to appear 5% of the time. You would thus set the permutations section to this:

[Creation
permutation = 0, 80
permutation = 1, 15
permutation = 2, 5

or 0.8, 0.15, 0.05, whatever you would rather look at.


Edit: I suppose I should clarify a bit here. The first number after "permuation =" is the index of the formation, starting from the top of the file (the first is 0, second is 1, etc). So, you could also say

[Creation
permutation = 2, 5
permutation = 0, 80
permutation = 1, 15

and get the same results. However, I see no practical advantage to putting the permutation lines out of index order.

Edited by - Dev on 8/19/2007 3:03:04 PM

Thanks Dev, many thanks

It snapped into my head straight away!!

Vital, do you understand it, ask more if you need more help, Dev has given everything you need to know

Why ask more, he really explained everything.

Thanks a lot, Dev, many thanks.

Wow, this finally makes sense. lol

Although, I suppose I should mention that when you put somthing like permutation = 0*, 1, the encounter starts spawning endlessly, with no limit on the NPCs that can come from that encounter. What's the deal with the *?

I am not sure, haven't tried it.

It probably makes the game ignore all the other permutation counts and focuses on the first one which is called '0' if there are '1' and '2' permutation counts as well, they are probably ignored

I just think, I haven't tried it yet, I just think that is what it does

Even then it's more confusing when you see the top post as there appears to be equations in the permutation counts.

Oh well, I will have to test it, permutation count is not really my speciality! I can do all I can only do for the best



Edited by - futuristic m1 on 8/21/2007 2:50:55 AM

I didn't change the area_nomads.ini encounter except put in the permutation count 0* and it had a nasty effect on my computer.

My RAM was driven nuts and it almost fell of the edge!!!!!

EIGHT squads of nomads kept spawning and within less than 5 minutes my screen was completely surrounded with red arrows covering all edges of the screen!!!!! They did not obey density rules that were specified in the system ini's

Doesn't take too long until the excessive lag started to take effect, the performance of the game was reduced to a mere 1 frame per second!!!!!

Thats that many of crazy ships, all enemies of nomads eliminated, just crazy. My contact list exploded like 250 red contact hostile nomads!!!!

Then my server couldn't take it anymore and the game itself and the server lost connection.

I still use the 0* today, just make sure the encounter.ini files do not have commands to spawn more than 2 ships at a time. It's pretty good in someways
makes things come out of tradelanes, objects (dockable bases I think) and should be jumpgates as well. I appreciate it.

I plan to make a military stronghold for each of the factions, Kusari, Liberty, Rheinland, Bretonia and for other factions that are massively spread throughout Sirius, and perhaps make minor facilities.

I should probably start making a 3-D system so what I mean is that everything is not on a plane. So what I mean is that objects solars can be higher and some can be lower and patrol paths can go up and down. That will take a lot of trigonometry I think!



Thanks for the suggestion Fox unit 01, its great and also the NPC wingmen, it's just magnificent, it's a whole new gift in Freelaner!!!!

lol, I wasn't suggesting to use actually _use_ that, but oh well. =P

Just for fun, I ran some tests on NPC caps a long time ago - FL can indeed hold 200NPCs in combat in a rather stable fashion, I was just reduced to about 1FPS. You can find a short screenshot pack of these stress tests at http://www.memes.no/88flak/downloads/npcstresstest.zip (it's amazing how much crap I have on my server that comes in handy at random points lol)

Futuristic M1, good luck in making 3d systems, you'll need it.
I had a thought to try to remake all the systems into 3D, but gave it up.
Well, maybe I'll give it a try some day... but don't think so, it'll take too long.

In my plan to make 3d systems, it's really the problem of patrol paths. If you look at the pdf file "Trying to understand encounters" a single path is an actual rod (or road) that you must define it's length width values (I think but at least how long it is) and when you state it's position co ordinate, it's where the center of the road is.

That is why it's difficult because of the center of the road put like that, then you have to do a lot of math (I am sure) to figure out the postion of both ends.

So I wished patrol paths were defined by co ordinates of two end points. The bases should be quite easy, just know those x, y, z numbers (I don't even know how the game arranges it! Whether it is x, y, z or in another order!) And zones I think won't be too much of a problem, but maybe I still need to test and test....

I will see what I can do, I might post the first 3d system for download once it is done. I am already trying to finish another voice tutorial, I will see what I can do. This is definitely going to need a lot of trigonometry and maybe some other maths formula if I come across a mathematical problem