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*** New Mod Idea - make MP more challenging and fun - need a

The general place to discuss MOD''ing Freelancer!

Post Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:56 am

*** New Mod Idea - make MP more challenging and fun - need a

Multiplayer was fun for the first 4 days. The game is too easy, and teamwork is not encouraged.

I'd like to make the game much more difficult, so that you actually have to work for any and all improvements to your craft. When you own your favourite ship, and have all the best equipment, the game no longer has a point, so I'd like to make that journey as long and difficult as possible... like a week or two, instead of several hours.

Here is a list of problems I see with the game, and proposed solutions. If even a few of these problems were dealt with, the game would be substantially more fun. I'm not expecting to get everything, especially not on the first run.

- problem: you can make too much money too fast, the game is essentially over in a matter of hours
+++ solution: make money harder to earn, make equipment more expensive

- problem: factions can be neutralized to make trading unchallenging
+++ solution: start players off with unbalanced reps in mpnewcharacter.fl, or mod the game somehow to make nuetralizing impossible (e.g. unbalance the increments and decrements of rep points so it's easier to become hated than to become liked?)

- problem: missions don't require teamwork, missions are too easy in general

- problem: too much money can be made from higher-level missions
+++ solution: edit diff2money.ini or disable missions altogether?

- problem: too much money can be made from running freight
+++ solution: average out commodity prices at bases, or lower the number of cargo holds on ships drastically (especially fighters)

- problem: pirating doesn't have a quick enough negative effect on your reputation
+++ solution: blowing up a faction's vessel should have a much more drastic negative effect on your reputation with them

- problem: fighting/running away from NPC's is too easy, they also drop loot that's worth too much if they're high enough level
+++ solution: make them tougher, give them regenerating shields, make trade rings go down for much longer, and/or remove shield batteries and nanobots from players entirely

- problem: the best ships in the game have almost no flaws - the Humpback has awesome shields, and the best fighters have the cargo capacity of a Rhino
+++ solution: tame down the ships a lot, give them strategic weaknesses

- problem: cheating is rampant
+++ solution: catch 99% of them by watching for million credit increases, automatically kick and ban them?

- problem: death means nothing to fighters
+++ solution: lose your ship? lose 10% of your net worth? lose your account entirely? maybe each player could have a certain amount of lives and when they run out, one of the above could happen

- problem: manually docking with Trade Lane Rings and entering formation with transports going through Jump Gates unbalances the game substatially between players who know how to do this and players who don't
+++ solution: fix auto-docking so that it's smarter and faster?

I'm definately open to ideas/debate on anything I've written here. I've merely posted these ideas to find people who are interested in working on a project which is along the same lines. I'd be happy to reconsider anything if you can bring some skill to the table!

I'd also like to make the mod extremely easy to install/uninstall. It would be even better if we had a wrapper mod which was able to recognize what mod was running on the server, and apply itself as necessary. That might be a pipe dream though.

*** I'm not interested in adding new ships! ***

That might make the game fun for an extra hour or so, but I'd much rather fix the inherant problems I see with the game and allow people to have fun for weeks or months. You'll quickly get bored of flying *any* ship if there's nothing new to do.

*** Modders (and only modders) wanted! ***

If you don't have any relevant skills, please don't post. I'm afraid this mod won't have need for modellers or texture artists anytime soon. I'd also like to ask people to stay away from frivilous dicussion on mod ideas (e.g "Yeah! Great ideas! And while you're at it, you should add a working Jump Hole to Alaska and make the sun pilotable!"

If you can offer technical reasons why some of my proposed solutions won't be possible, suggest feasable alternatives you are fairly confident would work, or propose ideas along the same lines as above, please post! But what I'm interested in right now is finding a team with roughly the same goals as mine. We'll flesh out the exact details later.

Edited by - Thundercleese on 27-03-2003 01:59:03

Edited by - Thundercleese on 27-03-2003 02:01:35

Post Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:57 am

Edited by - Thundercleese on 03-04-2003 08:01:28

Post Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:22 pm

I may not be a great modder, but I have a fundamental understanding of the modding process and I have extensively modded a game before (Starsiege, perhaps you have heard of it). Hopefully I can help. Could I have a little contact information (ICQ number)?

-Wheatevo

Post Mon Mar 31, 2003 12:52 am

Any help is appreciated! I've sent you off an email, and I look forward to working with you.

Post Mon Mar 31, 2003 1:57 am

You REALLY don't wanna add new ships?

A modified Anubis with 14 class-10 hardpoints MAY give you an (unfair ) advantage over other people, but look at it this way. If you price it at 2000000 credits, it gives hardcore players something to work for. Even more so for a Liberty Dreadnought worth 20000000 (at least!) Hardcore gamers shoot down newbies like flies even without a modified ship.

That being said, i agree with you on most points. Especially about the reputation and the TOO_MUCH_MONEY_TOO_EASILY problem. Some people have already found solutions for the reputation; there's a thread that explains how to make it so that shooting a faction member down takes your rep to the red instantly, and you have to shoot about 40 ennemy ships to take it back to where it was.

I'm also working on upgradeable engines and powerplants. More upgrades = more cash to spend.

Post Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:11 am

God yes - I'm going to contact you tomorrow on this idea.

Post Mon Mar 31, 2003 9:53 am

prplx - Pilotable gunships, battleships, and freight trains would be an awesome addition to the game, but I think there are more important problems to tackle first. I'd rather fix the playability of the game with the content we've already got - there are a lot of ships already, and 95% of them don't even get used!

> there's a thread that explains how to make it so that shooting a faction member down takes your rep to the red instantly

Yes, that was my thread.

> I'm also working on upgradeable engines and powerplants. More upgrades = more cash to spend.

That sounds great! Make sure you post your results, that sounds like it would be an interesting addition!

Post Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:47 pm

First of all: I have no active modding experience though I know how to do it. I'm a C++-Programmer but I have few experience with professional code such as Freelancer or any other games.

Your initial posting was quite fine, what followed.. well not that much fine. ;-)

In fact, you have the right ideas. The game does not REALLY need new ships. The existing ones are just too unbalanced for hardcore mp gaming.

Some additions to your ideas:

- problem: missions don't require teamwork, missions are too easy in general
+++ my solution: That game should support more extreme mission. What does that mean? Well, we need
more distance (missions to other systems, especially border and edge worlds)
more enemies
larger enemies (full fleets if needed)
enemies with different strengths and weaknesses, so that you can never have the right shild-gen or gun
more variation in mission tasks (escort, rescue, spy, taxi, trade missions)

- problem: the best ships in the game have almost no flaws - the Humpback has awesome shields, and the best fighters have the cargo capacity of a Rhino
+++ solution: tame down the ships a lot, give them strategic weaknesses

Thats not enough. We also need different ship speeds, different thruster forces, diffenrent cruise drive speeds and load times. Heavy fighters should be much slower, light fighters much faster. All of them should have almost no cargo space. Some of the models may have more cargo space, but less fighting capabilities.

Another fine addition to the game would be more traffic. Big planets like Manhatten or new London should be covered by heavy cruiser patrols. This would make smuggling more ... intense.

Thats what I would (additionally) suggest. Perhaps it's useful for you...

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:04 am

Useful? Yes. You've got some great ideas there.

> random missions...larger enemies (full fleets if needed)

Absolutely! Cruisers and Battleships should be involved in higher level missions. In fact, I wouldn't mind if higher level missions were impossible to complete without a team effort. I took a cursory look at vignetteparams.ini and it seems like a lot could be done in there. I'm not so sure about adding new mission types (that would require new icons, etc).

> different cruise drive speeds and load times

From what I've read on this forum, this may not be possible. "cruising_speed" can be defined in contants.ini, but I don't think it can be set on a ship-to-ship basis. Would be nice if we could though!

> more traffic

Yeah! Too many times have I seen a single pilot take out all the police around Manhattan. Bah!

My next big hurdle is MP death. Losing your cargo simply isn't enough of a deterrant. I'd much rather have the player lose his ship, or all his cash on hand. Since you're into C++, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction? I think I might have to decompile freelancer.exe or something, but I'm not sure how to get started.

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:50 am

I think I'm going to see if I can package up (what I've got done so far and start up a server on my spare machine to see if I can drum up some more interest in this project.

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 2:03 am

I think the thing that will make this game most interesting and challanging is a DYNAMIC UNIVERSE. A universe in which things happen randomly. Like suddenly there is a plague on Manhattan and Pharmacuticles prices go to $3000 for like 20 minutes, or until a set limit of commodotiy amount is reached. A popup message is sent to all the players to inform them of the event, etc..
And also, once you flood a base with a certain type of commodotiy, its price will go down and that will cause all the known trade routes to become useless after a few runs.
Stuff like this

In the past 2 days i've been taking apart freelancer.exe in my favorite debuging tools (im an asm/c/c++ coder), trying to figure out how its handling all its commodotiy prices, amounts, and everything that has to do with trading. I havent figured out anything useful yet, but once I do I hope to write some client/server app that will run both on the client and the server while the game is running, and will update all the commodotiy prices according to random events that my app will generate, both in the client and the server, and send pop up messages to the client. This is hard work.. it involves hooking to the freelancer.exe process and using its functions. Its just an idea i came up with lately and i decided to give it a try. If anyone in this forum has experience in these kind of things I'd be happy if he emailed me or left a message in this thread, I could use all the help I can get

-- magey

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 4:01 am

Hi magey,

A dynamic universe would certainly be awesome. I started a thread on this very topic a few days ago, to see if anyone thought it might be possible. Xerx may have made some headway with his memory editor, so you might try contacting him.

Can you tell me what debugging tools you're using? I'm very interested in changing how multiplayer death works. Thanks!

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 3:35 pm

I was using W32Dasm v8.93 and Ollydbg.. I'm planning to obtain and install SoftICE sometime this week, maybe ill have more luck with it :
-- magey

Post Tue Apr 01, 2003 10:07 pm

Do you really want to hook up into the game's memory? I think this is a BIG mistake. This could make the mod incompatible with upcoming patches. First, we should have a look at what can be done by the game itself.

Dynamic prices will not be possible to some degree as they are client stuff. Popup messages and server-wide events (like plagues etc) might be possible, but how do we send them to the clients?

If we can get this working somehow, then we could add some other dynamic events: Random wrecks, quarantine, temp. production stops, battle zones (temp. war between corsairs/outcasts and police/navy). There are a thousand possibilities, we just have to decide which to include. IF we can manage to send stuff like that to clients...

BTW: Your website is great. ;-) Could you make some of those tweaks ready for download?

Edited by - Colonel Chris on 01-04-2003 23:09:58

Post Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:13 am

> but how do we send them to the clients?

Use another port?

I'd rather not delve into disassembly if I can help it. I'd have to say that I'm more worried about the pain in my head than I am about patches coming along and busting up my work. I've put the idea of a dynamic universe on the back burner for now and am concentrating on things I know can be done.

There is, however, one thing that I'm willing to jump into the exe for: multiplayer death.

> BTW: Your website is great. ;-) Could you make some of those tweaks ready for download?

If you're addressing me (*grin*) thank you! Packaging up my INI's into an easily installable/uninstallable mod is my next little project. If you have any questions about any specific tweaks, just start up a thread and I'll be happy to explain.

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