They sold HL2 on CD? I thought it was a DVD only affair
Furthermore - you have to have a disk in the drive to play it? Oh no! It's the end i tells you, the end! I WILL DIE I CANNOT TAKE IT (that's being sarcastic, and the reason why is forthcoming!). I do believe Freelancer required the disk.
Indeed, I am seriously struggling to think here... wait, no... no... i have NO games which can play without the disk (well, except minesweeper). Can anyone name a game, I am honestly not sure such a thing as "playing game without disk in drive" has existed in well over 5 years

As for half life 2, never had issues installing it, including just last week (for some css play). Takes less than 20 mins all told, it's the 1 hour download of patches that annoys - but I can live with that.

I think I'm right in remembering that they monitored net traffic of Doom 3 downloads - and it was in excess of 800,000 illegal downloads by the end of release day? Youch, the pocket pounding - to the tune of several million. Protection is required, especially in the modern day fast net age (or lagging behind the world with archaic technology, but still quick enough to dl 1Gb overnight) age of today!

Remove copy protection, and I am positive sales will plummet for most games, sod it - go out on a limb, all games. Never have I seen so much crime be "acceptable" as when it comes to the internet Music, Movies and games - people don't consider that the equiv shop lifting could land them in jail - it's not "so bad", or "i wouldn't buy it normally, so morally it makes it okay". Bah!

Since production costs for games are rising rapidly, coming (for a good game especially) almost up to a par with some films, then I support the idea of somehow preventing piracy. Remove the money, remove the games.

If they cannot make much money creating PC games, we'll all be playing bloody xboxs and playstations to just try playing a game in a few years... and those games cost twice as much as PC games (I assume PC games are now around 25 quid on release to try and reduce piracy incentives? Just guessing).

However, back to the topic in hand. Since they pay for the protection, you'd assume it makes financial sense for them to put it on. I am positive they don't just think "oh, and slap this on because it's fun" - I am fairly positive that their revenue will drop significantly if there is no copy protection.

Personally I'd be happy for all games to have a Steam method of verifying the game is legit, or formatting your hdd if it's not (or alerting the police and having them prosecute or fine you for theft!).

I semi understand why people dislike the protections, but at the same time i find it very very funny.

Bottom line, the attitude that means people dislike the copy protection because it's spoiling their enjoyment or product they've paid for is the same attitude (in my opinion anyway) as the one whereby they protect it to prevent people pikeying it for free

You don't want to be inconvenienced ... they don't want to be inconvenienced by not being paid properly

Long post again, work should give me some... work, to do.

Its simple: When copy protection is getting to a level where it annoys the end-user, more copies will be pirated and cracked.
Even if you combine all hackers in world to write the uber-copy-protection - it will be NOT safe no matter what. So in the end, copy protection is always just an obstacle for the user, who legally purchased the product.
The hackers always crack it in the end.

Ever thought about why Universal announced to no longer copy protect their Audio CDs?
Because it annoys the end-user more than it solves the problem of pirated copys.

Btw.: Sell all products at 50% lower prices, problem solved.

Edited by - w0dk4 on 8/29/2007 10:06:39 AM

@ Chips did you not read my post.

I stated in there that Paradox did not use a dang protection on there HOI series, yes that has been in the last 6 months, and they are doing well without it. Therefore, other companies can follow suit. Paradox has an anti copy protection but I can take the original disc and load it on anyone’s puter and it plays without the disc/DVD in the drive now that is what I like, but all this other crap will keep my money in my pocket as I will not buy StarForce games, SecuROM games, or Valve games I don’t like the hassle when I buy it it’s my game regardless of the statement in the EULA my money my product. Cars, food, guns, hardware, etc, etc is not sold with this tie on garbage once you buy it it’s yours to keep and use as you see fit.


Edited by - FlyByU on 8/29/2007 11:22:16 AM

I'm not against copy protection at all, I believe it does stop a certain amount of piracy. If you remove all copy protection it becomes a free for all burning fest for any idiot with 2 brain cells and a DVD burner. However there is a point of friction whereby the copy protection becomes "over-policed" (for lack of a better word), pushing away legitimate customers and hurting the bottom line. Exactly the reason why no other big production company has employed Valve's rediculous anti-piracy measures. If HL2 had been a crap game it would've been an unmitigated disaster for Valve, fortunately for them the carrot was tasty enough to offset the annoyance.
IMHO though copy protection should not even be visible to the end-user, a dvd check is fine, licencing keys are fine but repeat install limitations and forced patch downloads are not only frustrating, they are hurting end sales. It's lose lose if you ask me.

What are you people talking about Valves protection isn't anywhere near a hassle. They do a pretty sweet job.

The whole experience left me with a horrible taste in my mouth. I'm sure steam works great for some but having to spend 2 hours installing/downloading/unlocking HL2 was, in my opinion, the height of rediculousness.

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What are you people talking about Valves protection isn't anywhere near a hassle. They do a pretty sweet job.

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QFT. The people with problems only seem to be in the majority because the ones with no problems don't make a sound about Steam. Yes, downloading patches can be a pain but you can't really fault Valve for that. Just put Steam in offline mode.

Anyone remember the copy-protection system for Railroad Tycoon? Now that was EPIC. There was a choice between possessing a copy of the manual or being a real anorak.

I use steam all the time and ive not had a spot of bother with it.... in 3 years lol, their way of activating and securing thier products is damn good (and i agree with you who said that other people should take this sort of thing on) it doesnt exactly requie mass amount of bandwidth, and in todays world, ALOT of people have the damn internet

As with the download/installing/patching...... so what? its thier way of making you have a better gaming experience giving you a better, bug free game

I'm not against patching a game to make it run better, what I have a problem is 3/4 of the game being shipped on DVD and then having to download the rest when you get home, it's stupid.

I concur; HL2's authentication was (and is) an absolute debacle. Does anyone remember the server crashes that occurred over the first few days of the game's release? And what happens when the activation servers are no longer active? Will the key be made available to everyone? Maybe, maybe not. And besides, it was cracked within a week if I recall correctly, which proves that it wasn't effective. Pah! I despise product activation.

it was "cracked" in that short of time as it involves the files thats used (there not iso's or anything, there .gls .... something lol, they got them into a format to RIP to DVD... ill stop now before i get into more trouble ) and you can only play on cracked steam servers (which is very.. very VERY few 10 - 20) and if you live in the UK or near you get about a ping of 300 to them, hardly playable lol.

You are confusing online play verification with product activation.
Validating an online client by a unique ID based off the cd key is nothing new, Steam didnt invent that.
This is about cracking/hacking games to play them in offline mode, online mode is a whole different topic.

Valve was cracked within a week? For single player, not multi... the online vertification works wonders there

Most copy protections are fallable, mainly due to crims that release the algorithm for the activation keys.

But is anyone here arguing that copy protection isn't necessary? I think everyone knows it's necessary - a necessary evil that we have to endure. To think we don't, is small minded. Even Flybyu's example has copy protection, just not the same as some others.

I'm all for it, i prefer systems like Valves, it's not that big a deal. I dislike ones where on boot up my CD rom drive (or DVD, up to date you see ) clicks and starts/stops repeatedly. Those I dislike. I don't mind requiring the CD or DVD in the drive to play, i need a tape in the video player to watch a film, or a DVD in the DVD drive to watch a movie... so I'm stunned people find requiring the CD or DVD to play a game to be a serious inconvenience! Some people sheesh! me me me me me!!!

Copy protection is a response to a problem, a problem created by users - piracy. We caused it to be needed, and we're the reason it's continually needed. We put up with them because it's the end users fault it exists Even games that are cracked aren't an issue, it's people downloading and playing said cracked games who are the issue... they're the problem, the cause, the reason...

Perhaps not yours or my fault personally, but until you start shopping in your mates for piracy, we're contributing eh?

So lets either go all 1984, or just put up with it (and let manufacturers know which methods are fine, and which aren't ).

Edited by - Chips on 8/31/2007 2:38:24 AM

As I said Paradox, I like, as with Freelancer you just stick the CD/DVD in and play the game. A pop-up ask you to register the game now later never and that is it.

If a game comes out like Bioshock, HL2, etc I will not buy it and will persuade others not to condone this garbage by buying it until it is in the bargain bin. That will make a statement to these companies who already made a mint.

Moreover, the games would sale for around $10-$15 less brand new without this garbage. So a $50 game with protection, and without it would be $35- $40. A game new starting at $40 would be $25-$30. It would put the protection companies out on their ear, but make games a lot less money so they would sale more because it is cheaper like they use to be before all this garbage came out.